Taming Puberty.

[Astromancer (imported)]

No Numnuts, I firmly disagree. Allowing parents to nueter children against their will is child abuse. Frankly, circuncision seems abusive to me. I'm for individuals being free to control their lives, and for society taking a balanced mix of means to promote this. Now If little Johnny decides she's really little Jenny, or he's a neuter, helping little Johnny find his way is good. But if little Johnny's folks decide that their son ought to be a daughter, or neutered, that's taking away a great deal of little Johnny's rights and freedoms.

Children are our responcibilities, not our chattles. In the end, education is best, teaching children as much as you can as truthfully as you can is the best way to help most children.

[JeffEunuch (imported)]

I firmly disagree. Allowing parents to nueter children against their will is child abuse. .....circuncision seems abusive to me. I'm for individuals being free to control their lives....... Now If little Johnny decides she's really little Jenny, or he's a neuter, helping little Johnny find his way is good..... Children are our responcibilities, not our chattles. In the end, education is best, teaching children as much as you can as truthfully as you can is the best way to help most children.

I totally agree. What many on this board want is simply acceptance for these decisions that everyone might make for themselves.

However, people need assistance in making these decisions. Especially in the case of genital modification or emasculation, the results are permanent. Counselling, etc. needs to be freely available.

[A-1 (imported)]

But the BIGGEST problem in the world is ignorance.

It breeds jealosy, hate, misunderstanding, etc. If the world's population were educated, they would not be willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause that is not their own through religous manipulation or through any other means.

To persecute Gays, to imprison drug abusers, (not dealers, abusers) and then to perpetuate the social structures that creates the social anomalies is ignorance to high heaven.

I am REALLY disgusted.

Back to the control issue. Babies grow to be children and children grow to be adults. Regardless of your particular persuasion, irresponsibility leads to disaster.

I will side with Krister and the sisters of perpetual responsibility. This crap about ABSOLUTION has made us what we are today in America.

The only reason why I say this is that castration against one's will excuses them from accountability. It provides them an out to say that things were not their fault and that their circmstances were beyond their control. It removes the need for them to be responsible sexually. WE, can control ANYTHING that we please. But with that control comes responsiblity and a PRICE.

We need to stand for something or we need to shut up and sit down and take what is coming to us. That "something" is ENSLAVEMENT.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN.

WAR, BUSH, TERRORISM, ET AL DO NOT BELONG ON THIS BOARD.

NEXT TIME, IT'S A BROAD SPECTRUM IP BAN. - Paolo



A-1

[Paolo]

This thread has obviously taken a severe left hand turn off topic.

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We’ve discussed the issue of theoretical castration of minors before, but that was not the original aim of this thread. Nor was linking it to George Bush and terrorism, somehow. I’m still trying to figure out how that happened.

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A-1 ranks high on my list, I’ll have you know. I have accidentally wiped out posts before. Hell, I’ve wiped out whole BOARDS before by hitting the wrong button. However, this post had to be edited, which I did not want to do.

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And thank you, I spent $200 on that last monitor that just got swatted off the desk.

That makes 3 mice, 1 monitor, and 2 keyboards this month already.

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But back to the topic.

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The issue of coping with puberty and its problems, I feel, is a valid discussion. Perhaps on another thread, so is the discussion of whether or not minors have the cognitive skills to decide for themselves if castration is right for them. We’ve discussed it before, and we can discuss it again, rationally and with relevant fact and opinions to back up the arguments if need be.

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Obviously, routine castration of minors simply does not happen in the civilized world in this day and age. The only exceptions would be accidents, injury and disease. While circumcision is a decision made by the parents and is very common (at least in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comsmarttags" /><st1:country-region>USA</st1:country-region>), castration is not. While both are a very genitally-altering experience, one is routinely accepted and one is not. It might make a good fiction story to fuel someone’s fantasy, but it’s not a reality.

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If anyone feels the need to discuss this at length, which we did in an old thread that was lost to the last board crash, we can do that – IF it is done rationally. An example would be the argument for a prepubescent MTF wannabe boy. However, this isn’t the thread to do it in.

Thank you.

[numnuts (imported)]

I think it should be up to the parents. Just as they have the right to choose circumcision, religion, schools, foods, where to live, etc. I believe they also have the right to decide whether or not they want grandchildren, just as they have a right to decide if they want children. Just as they have the right to argue over the clothing and hairstyles they want, etc. They should be able to do the same about sterilty, castration, etc. I don't see what the big todo is. Some people are male some female, some are tall some short, some are sexual some not, some are big some small, some are circumcised some not, some are black some are white, some are eunuchs some not, and on and on and on. No one can have it all or both ways. And I think it is up to the parents to make those how's, when's, why's and where's decisions. And I think it would be beneficial to the acceptance of diversity of all human kind.

Sorry for causeing such a ruckus, my intial post was not too well thought out or explained. When I mentioned castration, I was thinking in terms of chemical castration. And when I was talking about grandchildren, I meant it in the form of sexually overactive teens having unwanted prenancies and bringing home grandchildren that the parents would have to take care of.

I don't want to be out of line here, so I will be brief. But what I meant was that if puberty get out of control and becomes too much to handle......... guys getting so horny the are premiscuous and take lots of chances sexually, not using birth control, taking the chance of getting sexual diseases, etc., I think the parents should have the right to approach it from a medical standpoint, just as they would about anything else they feel would be in the best interest of their teenagers, and be able to help relieve an extreme sexual overactivity with some form of libido reducing therapy.

Not that it's their fault, but if teenagers prove that they are unable to control their sexual urges, I don't feel it's unreasonable at all for the parents to seek a solution. Just as they would with any behavioral/medical or even disciplinary problem. I certainly would have welcomed some form of libido/testosterone reducing drug, or even complete chemical castration (even if just for a couple years to help get through and over the worst years of puberty) just for my compulsive masturbation when I was a teen. I believe I would have been far more productive and socially adjusted. Thanks, and sorry again if I'm off topic or out of line.

[Paolo]

That was the initial topic, yes.

Easy mistake to make. No problem.

[Glenda J (imported)]

Paolo et al,

We are back to a simple point that sexual intercourse is the best of all methods of making babies. If that is not your aim, we have good old masturbation.

I am not in favor of doing things to young boys to inhibit their sex drive. Testosterone is important for development in many areas. Besides reproduction is pretty important if you are talking about bringing into the world kids who will be loved and raised in a good environment.

Taming puberty amounts to teaching responsibility for starters. Getting SuzyQ pregnant is not cool anyway you look at it.

Learning good methods of masturbation is an important part of sex education especially for young kids.

[Astromancer (imported)]

O.S. Fowler (an 18th century essayist) has much to answer for. Until he started with his anti-masterbation crusade, it really wasn't a big deal. In the middle-ages, gently masturbating young children was recomended as a way to get children to relax and goto sleep.

[Paolo]

Actually, I have given the boys advice before when I have become annoyed with them and need some quiet...such as, "Why don't you just go to your room and whack off for a while?"

[numnuts (imported)]

If I had a nickle for everytime I heard, "Go play with yourself", I'd be a rich guy! I also heard while growing up:

- "If you keep it up I'm gonna beat your ass!"

- "If you keep it up I'm gonna bust your balls!"

- "One more time and I'll cut your nuts off!"

- "Keep pushin' me and I'll cut your balls off!"

- "That boy needs neutered!"

The last one I remember my Aunt saying. All the other ones were from my Mom!