E-85 Biofuel Conundrum

[Paolo]

Straight gas fell to $1.879/gallon here today.

E-85 Ethanol was $1.979/gallon.

Most every E-85 vehicle will warn you in the manual to expect a fuel economy loss. Mine states 30%, up to. It loses EVERY bit of it, too. Therefore, E-85 should sell for less than gas. Never mind we grow the corn here...

But yet it sells for more. I refuse to use it.

Thoughts?

[jemagirl (imported)]

Straight gas fell to $1.879/gallon here today.

E-85 Ethanol was $1.979/gallon.

Most every E-85 vehicle will warn you in the manual to expect a fuel economy loss. Mine states 30%, up to. It loses EVERY bit of it, too. Therefore, E-85 should sell for less than gas. Never mind we grow the corn here...

But yet it sells for more. I refuse to use it.

Thoughts?

Wow. Gas is cheap where you are. Down at the corner it's about $2.40 or there abouts.

[kristoff]

Wow. Gas is cheap where you are. Down at the corner it's about $2.40 or there abouts.

1.91 in Minneapolis today. Filled both trucks.

[DeaconBlues (imported)]

My thoughts on this subject are this, that E85 is a "red herring," something to DISTRACT consumers from any REAL alternatives to crude oil/fossil fuels. Exxon/Mobil makes a few PATHETIC and lame efforts to reduce emissions and price of fuel, and they ALWAYS hype up their efforts that are in fact nothing more than window dressing.

E85 was hyped up in the news, "burns cleaner," "reduce dependence on foreign oil," and a bunch of other lies. Yet the reality of E85 and other things they do, is that it in every way just makes it all worse.

Corn used for fuel is corn NOT used for food and feed, and arable farm land used for fuel corn vice food and feed. This E85, has actually increased the price of many foods, there are many who say that E85 actually is a WORSE fuel from an emissions standpoint.

Something that truly amazes me, is that here in the U.S., the country with the great technological advances, the only country to have an active space shuttle program, and numerous other wonders, yet our "alternative fuels" suck. The country of Brazil has a real and prctical alternative fuel, their cars are all produced to be compatible with the other fuel which is CHEAPER than gasoline.

When I see things like this:

http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/i/m ... index.html

For a short time, I feel inspired, interested, intrigued and ENTHUSIASTIC.... then... I ask myself, "Just how fucking long will we have to wait to see this put to use? Why has it not already been put to use?" The answers to those questions are NOT inspiring and they quickly take the wind out of my sails as far as the enthusiasm goes. The answers to those questions.... We will NEVER see any real and practical alternative fuels developed, we will NEVER see any real and practical "sustainable" or "renewable" energy developed. There are way too many very rich people who are very well served by the situation exactly as it is, it will never change.

[Kortpeel (imported)]

When I see things like this:

http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/i/m ... index.html

For a short time, I feel inspired, interested, intrigued and ENTHUSIASTIC.... then... I ask myself, "Just how fucking long will we have to wait to see this put to use? Why has it not already been put to use?" The answers to those questions are NOT inspiring and they quickly take the wind out of my sails as far as the enthusiasm goes. The answers to those questions.... We will NEVER see any real and practical alternative fuels developed, we will NEVER see any real and practical "sustainable" or "renewable" energy developed. There are way too many very rich people who are very well served by the situation exactly as it is, it will never change.

I'm not so sure. If the system is as good as indicated in the clip and there aren't any snags that they've glossed over (there usually are) then I think we'll see it in a few years.

Quite apart from the economic and ecological advantages it would get the Middle East off Washington's back, Russia too and it would do one hell of a lot for the balance of payments. These advantages are big enough to withstand the Exxon lobby. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Exxon haven't already bought into it.

One other promising development was a company making synthetic petroleum from waste animal parts. They've located a pilot plant next to an abattoir. It stinks like hell but it turns out real gas, long chain hydrocarbons.

The snag is there aren't enough dead animal parts to meet the need but it occurs to me that, as the cemetries run out of space, if you're going to get burnt to ashes wouldn't it be more fun to get burnt in an engine's combustion chamber than in a crematorium?

That would solve the raw material shortage.

Kortpeel

[Kangan (imported)]

One of my pickup trucks can burn E-85. I don't use it, because it only gives about 60% mileage versus gasoline so I have to fill up much more frequently. No savings there!

Forget E-85 as a useful fuel.

Just saw gasoline for $1.89 in Henderson, Kentucky.

[Arab Nights (imported)]

Long term memory not being the first thing to go, I think I remember being thru this before. I distinctly remember an ad about 75-80 showing a baby bawling under the headline "America has 10 years of oil left." There was all kinds of talk about evil oil companies and the friendly promise of alternative energies. Then economies tanked, the price of oil fell and people filled up all their vehicles and bought bigger ones. Now that we are thru the runup part of the cycle, it will be interesting to see if we repeat the next part of the cycle.

[A-1 (imported)]

1.91 in Minneapolis today. Filled both trucks.

Yeah, probably for much less than it cost to fill ONE this last summer. Oil folks are sure changing now, huh?

...no more manipulation of oil prices after the collapse...

[A-1 (imported)]

Long term memory not being the first thing to go, I think I remember being thru this before. I distinctly remember an ad about 75-80 showing a baby bawling under the headline "America has 10 years of oil left." There was all kinds of talk about evil oil companies and the friendly promise of alternative energies. Then economies tanked, the price of oil fell and people filled up all their vehicles and bought bigger ones. Now that we are thru the runup part of the cycle, it will be interesting to see if we repeat the next part of the cycle.

Yes

Just remember THIS (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... id=2155717)...

"The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil"

-- Sheikh Zaki Yamani, a Saudi Arabian who served as his country's oil minister three decades ago

Technology has something better if BIG BUSINE$$ will allow it. From the looks of things all that O'Bama has to say is "...sorry Detroit, no BAIL OUTS for you!"

...like I said a long time ago, when the prices get to where they want them, there will be plenty of oil for everyone...

[Paolo]

One of my pickup trucks can burn E-85. I don't use it, because it only gives about 60% mileage versus gasoline so I have to fill up much more frequently. No savings there!

Forget E-85 as a useful fuel.

Just saw gasoline for $1.89 in Henderson, Kentucky.

Sounds like more than my 30% loss.

What's even more amazing are the idiots who use it, and think they're saving money. I tried to explain this to a guy filling up with it. We even got his manual out. "But it's cheaper than gas?" He kept repeating. (This was last summer when it was cheaper than gas...by about 10 cents/gallon.)

I just shook my head and sighed, and told him it was too bad he didn't have the mumps as a child...