Too Much Testosterone ?

[SexlessC23 (imported)]

All labs measure in different units, but mine is 24.5 nmol/l with normal range 10.0-28.0; bioavailable is 12.6, normal range 3.5-12.

To put it succinctly, it has me bouncing off the walls. My wife is in early menopause and has zero sex drive, hence my interest in this board. I need to masturbate or have sex daily at best, every other day at most. I have tried going as long as 4 days without either and I nearly went nuts, plus at my age my prostate starts to give me grief if I go that long between ejaculations; I end up having peeing trouble, but if I keep the equipment clear, as it were, I pee normally and forcefully.

John

[Blaise (imported)]

That is interesting. I cannot imagine too much!

[Testman (imported)]

All labs measure in different units, but mine is 24.5 nmol/l with normal range 10.0-28.0; bioavailable is 12.6, normal range 3.5-12.

To put it succinctly, it has me bouncing off the walls. My wife is in early menopause and has zero sex drive, hence my interest in this board. I need to masturbate or have sex daily at best, every other day at most. I have tried going as long as 4 days without either and I nearly went nuts, plus at my age my prostate starts to give me grief if I go that long between ejaculations; I end up having peeing trouble, but if I keep the equipment clear, as it were, I pee normally and forcefully.

John

To convert from ng/dL to nmol/L, multiply the ng/dL amount by 0.0347

To convert from nmol/l to ng/dl, divide the nmol/l by .0347

So 24.5 nmol/l is 706 ng/dl, which is an OK level. BTW, the REAL normal range is 700-1200 ng/dl. Yes, that high. Its just that pollution has lowered men's level down and then the medical community doesn't take that into account when they average out men's current testosterone level. In the 1950's it was rare to see even an older man with a level below 700. But, I'm getting off topic here. . .

[Testman (imported)]

The rat studies done with androgens (Testosterone) are not accurate, as mice and rats respond differently to it. Their kidneys actually grow in proportion to their testosterone level, and humans don't. If you give them enough, every one of them will die off quickly. But with people, its almost impossible for a person to get enough in them to kill them, even if taken over the course of years. So, lots of it can still be bad for people, but not in the same way as if we're rats.

[jlc9292 (imported)]

My testosterone level gradually dropped but I did not know what was going on. I think it probably started dropping around 30 and went undetected until about 50 yrs old. At that time I had been hypothroid and on meds. My Dr thought I was suffering depression because I had very little interest in anything. My libido was much diminished and I did not really enjoy sex all that much. I was put on an antidepressant to see what that would do but it did nothing. Finally a Endo tested my testosterone levels and they were in the 120 range. I started on a small dose of gel but that did nothing. Finally I started fairly large doses of DepoTestosterone Cyp (400mg every two weeks) and my T levels went through the roof. I hit higs in the 1400 to 1600 range and it drove me crazy. I was agressive, angry, quick tempered, developed acne, sleep apnia, high hematocrit, high RBC, high estradiol, and still had little libido due to the high estrogen. After some problems with atropy of the testicles, varicose veins, hard and sore epiditimus, "blowouts" resulting in autoimmune condition, and anterior pituitary failure resulting in no FSH or LH to stimulate the testicles, I discussed removal of the testicles to resolve the problem and in '05 they were both removed. I then went on a monthly injection of HRT which drove me crazy with the high and low cycle. Later I went on a weekly injection but still had hot flashes and really did not feel all that good on the shots. I tried eliminating the shots and for the next four months used no HRT. Other than a diminished libido, loss of night erections, and a little loss of upper body strength, I felt great. I had not felt that good in years. I went back on HRT with .6cc of DepoTestosterone injected twice weekly and immediately started having problems with acne and not feeling as well generally. I did regain energy but not to a large degree. I work out at the gym three times per week and am generally in good shape. Again I went off the HRT and immediately was more at ease with those around me. My wife felt I was much easier going and little things did not bother me. We still maintained a normal sex life and erection was possible with Levitra or Prostaglandin injections. Orgasm became more difficult and the amount of ejac diminished dratamically. I really did not have any desire for sex for myself but enjoyed it very much when my wife wanted me to have sex with her. It became more of being satisfied by pleasing her rather than any desire go "get off" myself. She would always climax and more often than not after she came we were pretty much through. My climax was of little consequence to me. I am now 64 yrs old and, except for the possibility of osteoporosis and loss of strength, would prefer to be off HRT entirely. I have only been back on for three weeks since being off and already have had prostatis, and acne. The Dr says that the prostatis (bleeding of the prostate) is not related but each time I start HRT the bleeding returns. I am still confused as to what I will do in the future but will talk with my Dr. at the end of this month about getting off completely. Everyone is different I guess but I feel better with no testosterone in my system. At castrate level I only had a total T of 13 and no E2 (estrogen). Love to hear others experience.

JLC

[Testman (imported)]

The older male does not do well with elevated estrogen levels. And testosterone cypionate will elevate that hormone to the greatest degree of ANYthing. Most docs don't know this though. But you could have tried a dose of propionate, as it has different effects. Its too bad Sustanon (brand name for 4 different testosterones) isn't available in the USA. It gives off less estrogen, but again, has a different "feeling" to it. BTW, the elevated RBC happens to some people, on even very low doses of HRT. And others can take mega doses and never get it. I used to always have it, even on low doses, but over enough time, it corrected itself. But, everyone is different. You sound like one of the few males who don't have major problems with castrate levels of testosterone. I would be worried about osteoporosis, though a little Anavar will help that. And also the loss of strength. Anavar, technically, is a make hormone, but is so refined that it is essentially non-androgenic (Male-like). Its great for bone strength, and is FDA approved for that use.

[nullorchis (imported)]

I have roamed the internet for articles on testosterone. Here is one of the best medical explanations that I have found regarding testosterone. Applicable to men and women. Discusses effects of normal, high, low levels. Non-technical and easy to understand.

Openly discusses information that is indicated but not proven. Really debunks a lot of mis-information and myths that I had.

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/E/ ... HMSContent

Now if the medical profession and society would openly permit men who want to be castrated have their way this would make it possible for medical science to study the effects of testosterone on men before and after castration. But with castration being harder to get than an abortion science is depriving itself of an opportunity to study the very complex mechanisms of testosterone.

[cordonone (imported)]

Interesting and informative thread, actually characterized by some "real medical facts." Thanks all around for that!

Three comments:

One, it seems the different people experience the lack and/or reintroduction of testosterone differently. Personally, I don't feel any more or less "aggressive" with or without it and, for the life of me even though I am one, I have no idea what "Eunuch Calm" is supposed to be. But, some folks experience changes in their aggressiveness with the introduction/reintroduction of Testosterone and some folks experience the "Eunuch Calm," so I can only conclude that both are real, though not for me.

Two, I'd suggest that folks not "tinker" with their blood chemistry on their own. Find a good, sympathetic Endocrinologist who is willing to sit down and work with you on this. Even a typical Internist is not going to have the knowledge base to give you the best advice. I have no idea what a "good" level of Testosterone is and I suspect that, once again, this is to some degree a function of each individual's own body and psyche. But, getting some good, sound medical advice is probably not a bad idea.

Three, there is indeed evidence that environmental factors have lowered the median Testosterone level in men over time. However, the data don't suggest that the "old" normal was the "right" normal. "Normal" is a range not a number. The "right" place for anyone within that range, in my opiniion, is a function of the individual. However, going too much above 1,200, probably brings one set of risk factors into play and going below 200 probably introduces another. It's my understanding that the adrenal and other glands will give even a completely agonadal male a Testosterone count somewhere between 15--30.

Thanks again to all for their thoughtful comments.

[cordonone (imported)]

I have roamed the internet for articles on testosterone. Here is one of the best medical explanations that I have found regarding testosterone. ...

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/E/ ... HMSContent

Now if the medical profession and society would openly permit men who want to be castrated have their way this would make it possible for medical science to study the effects of testosterone on men before and after castration. But with castration being harder to get than an abortion science is depriving itself of an opportunity to study the very complex mechanisms of testosterone.

The article is very informative, largely accurate and written by a well-credentialled guy. However, he's also being paid to write it by an insurance company, so the section on the "unproven" risks of low testosterone should probably be taken with a grain of salt consistent with the fact that insurance companies don't want to have to start paying willy-nilly for prescribed, testosterone supplements in an aging population. For another view on this, you might go to the doctors hired by the supplement producers, who will give a different perspective. Then, find a doctor whom you trust, compare the two viewpoints and work out the differences between the two perspectives.

I'm not sure that I agree with your second paragraph. Castrating someone because he has made a thoughtful decision, informed by advice from doctors and mental health professionals, is one thing. Castrating someone to study the effects of a lack of testosterone is a little macabre. There are plenty of men without testes either genetically or as a result of accidents, war or unrelated medical intervention to do such studies.

[raymar2020 (imported)]

This has been an intersting thread. As a male who has needed HRT for 30 years, I can agree that without supplement , the level of T will drop very low. In my case around 50.

Each person is different as to the level they need to function properly. I myself need to stay between 3-400 to not have "roid rage". If I drop below about 100 , I start to have hot flashes , and erection issues. It took years to get that right, and many docs tried to keep my level higher, but as a guy who has never had fully functioning testicles, my system is geared to a low T level.

I now find that an easy 5mg daily dosing of Androgel is perfect for me. I used to use half a pack of the 10mg, but thats a pain to try to save it for another day. At one time that was too much, but these days, I find that it works perfectly. I have a strong libido, and can get erect if the wind blows across it.

I don't "mess" with my dosage, as others do, to be either more aroused or less, as need may be. I function like any guy who gets his supply the usual way. Some days really horny , and others not.

Ray