Too Much Testosterone ?

[nullorchis (imported)]

Did you, do you have too much natural, or replacement testosterone in your body? What was it like? Emotionally, physically. Any permanent positive or negative side effects?

It was not good for some mice. They developed "Kennedy's Disease".

This study, and others like it, are building up good reasons why over the long run men might want to keep their testosterone levels lower, than higher.

http://news.msu.edu/story/934/&topic_id=11

Oct 29, 2007, EAST LANSING, Mich. — A mouse created by Michigan State University scientists studying a disease thought to be a neurological disorder that weakens men has exposed two surprises: Testosterone appears to be the culprit and it’s attacking muscles, not nerves.

...............

“The disease can cause permanent damage, but muscle cell death is an end-stage event. We have some really beautiful evidence showing that you can make animals very sick by giving them testosterone, yet they have just as many motor neurons as a normal animal. Muscle changes are what cause the disease, and in the early stages it is completely reversible.”

Jordan said the correlation between their mouse model and humans is strong.

“In terms of both symptoms and microscopically in tissue sections, what we see in mice is also observed in humans,” she said.

[Castroboi (imported)]

I am very glad mine is most likely very low

[Paolo]

When I did that one round of HRT about 10 years ago, it was awful. It was like going through puberty again, although compressing all of it into a month or so.

Oily skin, moderate acne, severe anxiety, increased sex drive, increased body hair, more frequent erections than before the problems that led to it, and a very large increase in aggression. (Like I needed that!) I stopped using it after 1 month, and it took another month for all of this to clear up. Then, of course, it was back to the side effects of losing testosterone...

[nullorchis (imported)]

When I did that one round of HRT about 10 years ago, it was awful. It was like going through puberty again, although compressing all of it into a month or so.

Oily skin, moderate acne, severe anxiety, increased sex drive, increased body hair, more frequent erections than before the problems that led to it, and a very large increase in aggression. (Like I needed that!) I stopped using it after 1 month, and it took another month for all of this to clear up. Then, of course, it was back to the side effects of losing testosterone...

This is a very interesting and illuminating comment.

Do you know what your T level was before starting HRT, and what it was at once the effects of HRT were felt?

When I went from a T level of 440 to 170 earlier this year I guess I experienced what you call "

the side effects of losing testosterone...

" or what I will coin as: Testosterone Withdrawal Symdrome (TWS).

That happened this last Spring '08. This WAS AWFUL. I thought, if this is what it is like having very low T, it must be worse having no T.

I did not equate that there would be a "withdrawal" period and that once withdrawn from T there would ultimately be a better outcome.

So from one who has not experienced no T, thanks for your comment. It helped to clear up some mis-conceptions I had.

To get rid of TWS symptoms, I started TRT 3 months ago. I decided having a T level of around 200 might be best; enough T to ward off osteporosis and other medical negatives and avoid what I experienced at low T level, but not too much so I would hopefully avoid negative effects of too much T.

Using TRT my T level went back up to 256 and at that level I experienced most of what you did. Oily skin, no acne, a feeling of being hyper buzzed on quadruple espresso, regular night erections, a desire for sex, and increased aggitation when driving (which might be related to aggression). So I am trying to adjust the dose to keep T level around 200.

However your comments are making me wonder if I should continue the TRT and just let nature take its course. Would a natural T level of 150 or so enable me to experience the same level of calm that a eunuch experiences?

At what T level can one be considered to be in eunuchdom?

I guess there will be no way to answer this unless someone has experienced 150 with their own natural testosterone, and then experienced life after castration.

Nevertheless your one comment has resulted in me thinking about whether or not to continue the TRT. Going through TWS is not something I want to experience again, but maybe it will be necessary. You got me thinking. Thanks.

[artisticlicense (imported)]

I haven't been checked in well over 10 years. I wonder what my 'count' would be now? Have the print-out somewhere. I didn't feel any different except for hot flashes. I don't think I was ever "overly tanked" on Testosterone, even as a kid. (Undescended testicles.)

I started taking Pregnenolone about 8 years ago to combat effects of hypogonadism. My Gen Practitioner said "can't hurt". He didn't offer to tell me about it, I learned about it on my own and questioned him. Faced with the expense of treatment (insurance didn't cover), I resigned myself to live without. He did tell me what to expect, which brought about the learning period. At the time, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Pregnenolone made me feel 'normal' except for no real erections. Manual stimulation brings about a satisfactory result, but no "burning desire". I can respond mentally to someone, and relate physically - as to touch or prostate massage. It takes a patient partner. Physically, sexual interaction is a 'take-it-or-leave-it' thing. Previous posts sort-of describe my adventure with Pregnenolone. Dirt-cheap alternative, about $1.50 a month.

If I go off Pregnenolone, no hot flashes, no big deal except - I sag, loose interest in things and revert to a state like before...constantly depressed, lack-of-desire-to-live "normal". Get tired easily, no energy. (I guess a type of withdrawal) Some of that with the supplement, sometimes; due to work and exercise demands, just not as bad; and it's more periodic, over constant. A definite improvement over no a "T" existence where I felt like a rubber zombie.

Curious; What is the point of taking "T" when/after the body is already accustomed to existing without it? Is it to maintain a male physique, continue/re-continue sex? Combat effects on mental state due to lack of?

I'm sure it is personal choices. It has been so long, it feels like I have no basis for these feelings, why I ask.

I see discussions about HRT, but wonder why a eunuch or eunuch-wanna-be would bother. Today, I feel a lot like I did as a kid, before the hormones kicked in. Don't know if I have a true "emotion" toward sex or the erotic. I'm aware of "sex", what it is and can do, how it feels to have it... just not governed by it.

I would really like to have a conversation with someone who was really "tanked", and lived life that way for a long time, before becoming a eunuch.

I feel left out of the loop.

[Hash (imported)]

When I was finally castrated, my testosterone plummeted and I was a zombie. I tried to live without any "T" but felt awful, depressed, no motivation, etc. Then I started experimenting and realized that I if I could keep my testosterone level between 150-200, it was enough to ward off depression & osteoporosis, and motivation returned. Osteoporosis may finally catch up to me with this low dosage, but currently my test results say that my bones are fine. I low dose with "Compounded Testosterone," that I get from the local Apothecary or Pharmacy. My female doctor is fine with my status and has no problem writing me a script for compounded "T". I really like my doctor. She is older, approximately 55-58, and when she checked me out she simply said, "Well, I guess you are castrated." I told her the world would be a better place if more men were castrated and she said, "I can't argue with that!" I'll never forget that statement. Well, I'm rambling. Hope this helps.

[artisticlicense (imported)]

When I was finally castrated, my testosterone plummeted and I was a zombie. I tried to live without any "T" but felt awful, depressed, no motivation, etc. Then I started experimenting and realized that I if I could keep my testosterone level between 150-200, it was enough to ward off depression & osteoporosis, and motivation returned. Osteoporosis may finally catch up to me with this low dosage, but currently my test results say that my bones are fine. I low dose with "Compounded Testosterone," that I get from the local Apothecary or Pharmacy. My female doctor is fine with my status and has no problem writing me a script for compounded "T". I really like my doctor. She is older, approximately 55-58, and when she checked me out she simply said, "Well, I guess you are castrated." I told her the world would be a better place if more men were castrated and she said, "I can't argue with that!" I'll never forget that statement. Well, I'm rambling. Hope this helps.

I had to do a lot of experimentation too. I had to learn everything on my own. I got so 'down', I didn't want to live. It's killer to be so depressed, simply due to lack of proper nutrients or chemicals. My physician at the time, never offered any suggestions other than a route that was beyond my reach ($). He was all about the $. I was 'stuck' with him, for a while (work). I eventually changed Dr. - when I 'retired' (semi-retired; left Gov.work). I have not seem him in a couple of years, but he's aware of "my chemical use", as he calls it. "It works, see nothing wrong with it, several studies with good reports, it's cheap and you're happy. Here if you need me." He's an older 'Country Doctor'. He remembers what it's like to trade a chicken for 'payment'.

When I was diagnosed, I didn't feel any different sexually, other than physically worn and tired. It's what I noticed first. I thought I was infected with something. I have to point out that my old Dr did suggest blood-work because he 'noticed' my file said undescended testicles. It took a couple of years before I got really down, to where I didn't even feel "sexual" or amorous. No interest in ANYTHING except sleep.

I like the way I feel now. Not tied to the 'lust-factor' but responsive when needed.

[nullorchis (imported)]

From some responses in this thread I am learning a lot. Some people seem to be able to live comfortably with no or very low T, but for some it causes unacceptable consequences so they add a low level of T back into their system. Elimination of intense sex drive seem to be one motivation to be castrated (without the ongoing bother of chemical castration) , yet for some there is a desire to retain some sex drive and for others there is desire, or after-the-fact acceptance of complete elimination of sex drive.

I am glad to learn that there is at least a few people who have been able to achieve some kind of low/moderate level of testosterone. I have a similar goal.

Seems like being testicle-free a person at least has the choice of being testosterone-free, or through supplements trying to achieve a T level that matches one's personal choice. For the long term this would be preferable to me than chemical castration. No indication in comments if lowered testosterone via chemical castration has the same mental/emotional impact as lowered testosterone via physical castration. While both may lower T level, adding chemicals into body to lower T level may yield different kind of emotional physical results.

I guess only someone who has experienced a fair amount of chemical castration, and its effects, and then went on to experience physical castration, and it's effects, would be able to describe any differences between the two methods, if any. And then again, everyone's experience may differ.

[mrt (imported)]

I had the same feeling of having a second puberty when I went on HRT. I felt "controlled" by my sexual needs. Kind of like a drumbeat and you have to pull the oars. I was acting different in situations. Younger women dressed to look "hot" looked... Hot! The same women pre HRT looked silly or I worried that their mothers would not approve. The strong urges were not anything out of control like making me suddenly do improper things but yes I felt very different.

There is a good pod cast about a TS person who was going female to male and the effect that testosterone had on her (now him) was very similar to what I felt. Some of the thoughts that went on for this person were that Testosterone made her feel horny and for a while it was her focus on things. She felt that it was making her into a "typical male ass hole" giving her urges to say and do some rude things and then as the effect became more "normal" and as the changes made her more and more male the maturity the reasoning and "brain" started to sort these feelings and urges and put them into a good priority. Puberty in a young child is a pain in the ass because the person has so little experience and history of self control. As an adult my second puberty was I admit a bit of a shock but MUCH easier and much more pleasent because I was able to enjoy my refound sexuality and do things with it where as when I was 13 (I think thats puberty?) there was no sexual outlit and I was probably acting like a total idiot for years and years getting a handle on it.

[gandalf (imported)]

Reading all these posts also has helped me. I know when I was castrated, after 30 days the hot flashes started. They were not too bad but I knew what the were because of being overly hot for a few minutes every so often.

When the Dr. put me on HRT daily (Testim, 5 gm tube) I went back to more sex drive than I had as a teen ager. The Dr. wisely lowered my dosage to every other day and that seem to keep me like I should be for my age. If I want it, I can do it, but it does not rule me. When I had my scrotum removed

last month, I went 4 days between applications because I did not want any nighttime erections to pull the stitches out. I got along fine then on the lower dose. Hopefully, I am going to experiment on Oct with the every four day application for the month and see how things go.

This isn't something I have to do because of $. My insurance pays for mine except for a small copay.

I refer to age but I have to think of all the men in the Bible who had children after the age of 100. But I am happy. I would like to see how things go without the HRT but I think I'll wait until winter arrives. With low thyroid, I am chilly most of the tiome even on Syntroid so maybe without hrt the hot flashes would keep me warmer.

Gandalf