New LA Chemical Castration Law

Blaise (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Blaise (imported) »

kristoff wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:16 pm Definitely not the first of its kind...

This is a topic that has been debated many times over several years here.

I'll see if I can find some of the old links later.
Good! It belong here! I recall that we have discussed this theme. I don't recall that someone has mentioned that he has molested children. That is a courageous confession.

My first grade teacher used to call us little people. That was both correct and wrong. Children live in a qualitatively difference world than adults. Piaget and others demonstrated that clearly.

I recall childhood vividly. I think that I recall it better than the last decade, but we embellish and change our memories even as we remember. I do know that I always felt sexual. I felt attraction to adult women for a long time--I know that I had fantasies about what we essentially intercourse with adult women when I was five or six years old. I really wanted to be with women in their twenties and older.

In fact, I had sexual fantasies (meaning masturbation fantasies about the mother of a playmate friend. Many years later, I learned that she probably sexually abused him. I was her without clothing enough to have some idea aboot what I wanted to do with her.

There was not one to discuss any of this. I recall feeling very alone about sexual desire. We don’t talk to children about sex--at least no one did until I was at the edge of puberty and that was much too late.

When I grew up, I knew why we don’t talk about sex with children. At least, I guess that I did. We rightly fear violating children and what we assume is their innocence. What children have is not exactly innocence but childhood, experiences that are suitable to the understanding of children.

Children do not usually do what we think of as abstract thought until (in our culture) eleven, though Tuesday Weld seems to have know a different world. I liked children and I liked being around them. I was the oldest child in a large family and the presence of children was just part of life. I understand affection for children. But they always seemed part of another world, one in the past, not part of the presence. You don’t form crushes on girls part of another generational cohort, even one close to your own. At least, one assumed this. But that is not the case obviously for everyone.

My wife told me that I was fortunate that I was not attracted to children. Thirteen-year-old girls used to form crushes on me. Most of them outgrew that by age fifteen. They completely outgrew them by the time they were in their twenties.

But I feel for those who are attracted to children. Sexual desire is an irrational force. It must be heartbreaking.

We need to be able to talk about such matters and we seem completely unable to do that. I hope that there are therapists who can, but even at that I wonder where are those with empathy for those who sexually violate children.

I spent some years on the edge of working with men convicted of domestic abuse. What I recall were men emotionally arrested at about three-years-old. I don’t know what plays with pedophiles. I assume it is something in plain sight that I have not yet seen. I know that they cause harm.

But if we cannot show humanity to pedophiles, we will never grasp the problem. Maybe the rest of us are just lucky that our sexual road maps took us other places. .

But the differences are qualitative. The world of the child and the world of an adult are not the same world. We are product of developmental processes. I rejoice that someone has the courage to become a eunuch for children, for his potential victims.
kristoff
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by kristoff »

Here's a start with some of the older threads on the topic. Search function used with various terms will bring up loads of stuff.
291&highlight=offenders
225&highlight=offenders
362&highlight=offenders
469&highlight=offenders
4447&highlight=offenders
3099&highlight=offenders
Blaise (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Blaise (imported) »

kristoff wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:09 pm Here's a start with some of the older threads on the topic. Search function used with various terms will bring up loads of stuff.
291&highlight=offenders
225&highlight=offenders
362&highlight=offenders
469&highlight=offenders
4447&highlight=offenders
3099&highlight=offenders

🙏 Thank you. 🙋 🙏I remember some of this discussion.
Kangan (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Kangan (imported) »

curious_guy (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:57 am A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children. Should they be punished even if they have never even attempted to have sex with children?

Every day there are people arrested for mere possession of pictures of children in sexually suggestive poses, or for asking children to have sex without any physical act taking place.

So, unfortunately, the answer to your question is YES.

I do wish that we would treat pedophilia as the illness that it is.
Blaise (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Blaise (imported) »

Kangan (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:26 am Every day there are people arrested for mere possession of pictures of children in sexually suggestive poses, or for asking children to have sex without any physical act taking place.

So, unfortunately, the answer to your question is YES.

I do wish that we would treat pedophilia as the illness that it is.

Yes, yes, yes. When I worked at the Catholic Bookstore in Portland, Oregon, we sold a book about sexuality and gender for children. It had explicit photographs of a girl and a boy and their genitals. It was a splendid book, but I imagine we would now go to jail for selling it or even having a copy of it. The book did not pose the children having sex but it showed the erect penis of the boy and talked about arousal.

My father used to complain that before we exhaust this nonsense we will arrest parents for changing diapers. I recall how I once would baby sit for friends. I would never consider doing that today. Never. I think that our outrages plays directly into child murder--hiding the evidence and testimony of children. To boot, I think most child sexual abuse happens within families, where we cannot

see it.

The exposure that The Wall Street Journal and Frontline brought to false prosecutions in North Carolina, Florida, and California underscored how we overplay this problem.

I am not denying that child sexual abuse happens. I am complaining about how we make it worse.
jane_says (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by jane_says (imported) »

Kangan (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:26 am Every day there are people arrested for mere possession of pictures of children in sexually suggestive poses, or for asking children to have sex without any physical act taking place.

So, unfortunately, the answer to your question is YES.

Are you saying taking sexually suggestive photos of children or asking kids to have sex should not be a crime?
twaddler (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by twaddler (imported) »

"
Kangan (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:26 am Every day there are people arrested for mere possession of pictures of children in sexually suggestive poses, or for asking children to have sex without any physical act taking place.
"

I fully support penalties for both of these -- particularly the second one!
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by coinflipper_21 (imported) »

...
Blaise (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:52 am My father used to complain that before we exhaust this nonsense we will arrest parents for changing diapers. I recall how I once would baby sit for friends. I would never consider doing that today. Never. I think that our outrages plays directly into child murder--hiding the evidence and testimony of children. To boot, I think most child sexual abuse happens within families, where we cannot

see it.

The exposure that The Wall Street Journal and Frontline brought to false prosecutions in North Carolina, Florida, and California underscored how we overplay this problem.

I could not agree with you more on this. I am very close to someone who works in the child welfare system. She sees the worst of both sides of the situation from the true, unrepentant sexual predators, to the man (or woman) falsely accused of sexual abuse for leverage in a contentious divorce. By the way, your contention that
Blaise (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:52 am most child sexual abuse happens
inside families is borne out by the statistics. Many of these cases play out entirely in family court instead of criminal court where the children (and by extension the parents) are protected by confidentiality rules.

The social workers are, BOUND BY LAW, to investigate even the slightest suggestion of child abuse, and take custody of the child(ren) if even the slightest evidence of actual sexual or physical abuse shows in the initial investigation. Their mandate is, first and foremost, the protection of the children.

Anyone with a state license is a mandated reporter. They HAVE to report their suspicions. That means doctors, teachers, lawyers, therapists,even your manicurist. The only hope of someone falsely accused is that their name doesn't leak to the press before the investigation is completed. In very few cases (in California, at least) have false accusations caused someone to be punished by the system. The court of public opinion is another matter.

There are basically two types of child predators, the ones that go after pre-pubescent children and the ones that go after the pubescent to legal age children. In the former case it is probably a hard wired problem in their brains. There is almost no record of any of this type of child predator being rehabilitated.

In the latter case it is probably a matter of socialization. A normal man will notice an attractive, flirtatious 13 year old girl. However, he realizes that she is just trying to be sexy...she is practicing a tease, and there is no real sexuality there yet. He notes her in his store of pleasant memories and moves on to the next thing on his daily agenda. The pedophile notices her and she becomes his agenda. It may be possible that this type of person can be re-socialized and rehabilitated, but no one really knows how to do it RELIABLY. No one will want to accept these men (and women) back into society unless the reliability of the re-socialization can be guaranteed.

Then there is the unthinking person who runs afoul of the system. Since there are so many mandated reporters about, you have to be aware of the law to avoid, any semblance of reportable behavior. For example, joking with a 17 year old girl about having sex with her after she turns 18 is illegal (Yes, even if she makes the suggestion.). Even if it is an innocent joke, with someone you have known all her life, it is 'Soliciting Sex From a Minor' under the law and anyone observing it could report it. Discussing anything sexual with a child, not your own, is illegal outside a professional context such as a doctor's office or a sex education class. It comes under the statute covering 'Inciting the Passions of a Minor'. This goes on and on. Unless you are in law enforcement or child welfare you have no idea of how many such laws are on the books in your state.

It leaves adults with a certain level of paranoia about any contact with children except in the most transparently open and public social situations. I am afraid that the fear of even discussing anything involving sexuality with young people has and will contribute to the growing gap between the generations.
Blaise (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Blaise (imported) »

jane_says (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:38 pm Are you saying taking sexually suggestive photos of children or asking kids to have sex should not be a crime?
We have discussed this on this forum. The problem with sexually explicit material involving children comes from real children being involved in illegal activities to make the pornography. We must insure it is illegal.
Blaise (imported)
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Re: New LA Chemical Castration Law

Post by Blaise (imported) »

"
Kangan (imported) wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:26 am Every day there are people arrested for mere possession of pictures of children in sexually suggestive poses, or for asking children to hav
twaddler (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:02 pm e sex without any physical act taking place.
"

I fully support penal
ties for both of these -- particularly the second one!Yes, I also support sanctions against this conduct. I think that I recall a study by someone from the University of Pennsylvania that determined an incredible rate of child prostitution in New Orleans. I think that the authorities there had no idea the level was as high as the researcher reported.

I think that in some prior threads we have distinguished pedophilia and ephebophilia. It is important to differentiate what involves legality and what involves psycho-sexual development and to think about how these intersect.

As well, we need to distinguish various forms of structure within homosexuality, involving adult men and adolescent boys. There are some ambiguities in all of this.

A simple web check reveals some helpful articles on these matters.

Anyone who has been in therapy groups with adults who were victims of childhood sexual abuse understands why this is an extremely serious matter.
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