So how did Christianity get started?

[amahl_shukup (imported)]

Well,...

...it was started so that those who wanted to believe in the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would have yet another reason to hate and to kill each other and to kill everyone else who did not do their bidding...

.....

I know a lot of people here are sick of this topic, but as to how Xianity (that's shorthand for Christianity for future reference), it there is a more plausible explanation as to how it came about as a religion. Accepting that my foregoing myth-busting is correct (Jesus did not exist, for reasons already given), how DID Xianity come about? The Roman Empire in the 4th Century was beginning to fall apart, and it was becoming apparent to those in power. Rome itself was awash in hundreds of crazy religious sects, the Imperial army was spread all across the Empire and spread rather thin, and the national treasure was being devoured by these armies. Rome was threatened on every side, including schisms within. Emperor Constantine directed Bishop Eusebius to create from all the various sects a plausible and universal (in Latin "catolica" or Catholic) church. The result was the Council of Nicea in 326 AD. If you were to speak to Eusebius today, many people think he was a zealot, perhaps even crazy...many of the religious zealots of the time WERE crazy as bedbugs. The Catholic Church, with the blessings of Imperial Rome, became the accepted and official church, not out of religious fervor, but for the same old reasons we are familiar with today....money and power. Just try to imagine how much money over the centuries the Catholic Church has wheedled out of its loyal flock, and you really don't have to look very far to see the power it still wields.

With nothing more than a promise of eternal life, salvation, and forgiveness of sins, the Church has become one of the most powerful and rich institutions in the world. I would like to start selling the Brooklyn Bridge or maybe I'll start selling Carbon Offsets....anything at all, but forgiveness of sins and salvation (from Hell and the boogyman Satan) trumps all the other scams I've ever heard of. I mean who else besides "ministers" can earn high salaries for speaking mealy-mouthed platitudes and selling shares in a mythical afterlife? God DAMN what a great scam...wish I had thought of it! Shit! I wonder if I could get a franchise selling salvation just here in my hometown? No, the Catholics, Baptists, and Presbyterians have every street corner sewed up tighter than crack dealers have their territories...and they defend them just about as vigorously.

Power and money...THAT is how the Church got started, and you can look to the Council of Nicea for its genesis in 326 AD.

[Slammr (imported)]

Excellent post. I agree 100%.

[randy (imported)]

I know a lot of people here are sick of this topic, but as to how Xianity (that's shorthand for Christianity for future reference), it there is a more plausible explanation as to how it came about as a religion. Accepting that my foregoing myth-busting is correct (Jesus did not exist, for reasons already given), how DID Xianity come about? The Roman Empire in the 4th Century was beginning to fall apart, and it was becoming apparent to those in power. Rome itself was awash in hundreds of crazy religious sects, the Imperial army was spread all across the Empire and spread rather thin, and the national treasure was being devoured by these armies. Rome was threatened on every side, including schisms within. Emperor Constantine directed Bishop Eusebius to create from all the various sects a plausible and universal (in Latin "catolica" or Catholic) church. The result was the Council of Nicea in 326 AD. If you were to speak to Eusebius today, many people think he was a zealot, perhaps even crazy...many of the religious zealots of the time WERE crazy as bedbugs. The Catholic Church, with the blessings of Imperial Rome, became the accepted and official church, not out of religious fervor, but for the same old reasons we are familiar with today....money and power. Just try to imagine how much money over the centuries the Catholic Church has wheedled out of its loyal flock, and you really don't have to look very far to see the power it still wields.

Power and money...THAT is how the Church got started, and you can look to the Council of Nicea for its genesis in 326 AD.

Xianity is an entirely different religion in itself. Based in the Chinese city of Xi'an.

Also I don’t think people are tired of religion on this board. 2 of the top 4 threads in the D.D.C. are religious threads. The top thread in "political discussions" was turned into a religious thread. My thread with spiritual undertones is toward the top in eunuch central. I receive a couple of emails or private messages each week from people asking me religious questions, seeking spiritual advise, and prayer requests(my personal favorite). So no, I think religious discussion is alive and well on this board and I look forward to future dialogue on the subject.

Since you have convinced yourself there was no historical Jesus we have no common ground. I believe you answered why catholicism gained popularity in Rome fairly well. Yes it was in control of people and money at the time. That is exactly why it was opposing obedience to God because the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is something God hates. The Roman acceptance of catholicism had nothing to do with the start of Christianity, or obedience to Christ. Again, since you don’t believe what I believe about Christ, we are dealing with apples and cumquats.

[sag111 (imported)]

THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM AND BELEAVE ME THE LORD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.When I see people mock and make fun of God I feel sad not for religion but for those who will one day pay a price to big to emagine.My prayers are with all of you love sag111.

[Lesley (imported)]

SAG111,

It is you who have fallen prey to the doctrine of sin and fear. Your beliefs are just the thing that the powerfull want you to belive and therefore fall prey to the powerfulls dictums.

Sin is destructive but wishing to be creative and non-violent is life enhansing.

[amahl_shukup (imported)]

THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM AND BELEAVE ME THE LORD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.When I see people mock and make fun of God I feel sad not for religion but for those who will one day pay a price to big to emagine.My prayers are with all of you love sag111.

Ah, now you've gone and confused two different things. You assume (and you know what happens when you ass-u-me anything)..you assume that because I don't believe Jesus existed that I, therefore, must not believe in God. That is not the case.

The universe seems to be too well constructed and life on Earth too well constructed to have come about totally by chance. I accept that there might be...maybe even PROBABLY is .... some higher power or intelligence that put the physical world together as it is. It may even be a construct of pure consciousness, all the combined consciousness of all sentient creatures of the universe, that may be God, for want of a better word. But rather than "God" I prefer words like "The Source" or "Creator of us all" (like the ancient Sumerians believed... or maybe it is just the Great Consciousness. What I do NOT believe is that the Source or the Great Consciousness has genitals (it would be in good company on THIS board, huh?) and is most certainly not a white-bearded guy keeping a tally of your every sin and bad thought.

So before you start bandying about charges of atheism and "not believing in God" etc., just realize that not every spiritual person (such as me) buys your sanctimonius and childish belief in Jesus. We have ample evidence that no such person ever existed. But as to God...or something like God... well now, that's another matter entirely.

[amahl_shukup (imported)]

Xianity is an entirely different religion in itself. Based in the Chinese city of Xi'an.

Not quite, but I get your drift. Xi'an aside, there are a lot of us who follow the scholarly approach to the origins of Christianity, and on our various blogs and discussion threads often use Xianity as a shorthand way of saying Christianity.... The X being the once-symbol of the cross, etc. I probably should have stated that up front, but assumed folks here would get it. If you doubt me (and it's OK to, one should doubt and question EVERYTHING), just Google the word (neologism is more like it) Xianity and see what you come up with.

[amahl_shukup (imported)]

["

read tons of books and essays and documents

"] For the sake of understanding this thread, I wonder what you have read. The question of the historical Jesus, including whether or not he existed, is a lively topic in religious, historical, and cultural studies. You mention a few works in your posts but not many. I am particularly interested in your take of the work of scholars such as Adolf Deismann, John Crossan, and Jonathan Reed. What do you think about the Frontline programs from Jesus to Christianity? Where do you think it fails?

I'm familiar with Deismann, but he seems to write from a Judaic point of view, which does not interest me in the least. Reed and Crossan actually START from the point of view that Jesus existed, without examining that assumption too closely, and I think they both fail a priori through that assumption. Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the Frontline programs you mention, but then I eschew a lot of TV for the vast wasteland that it is, and sometimes even PBS falls into that category, especially with the English comedies they broadcast...tedious. But, no, I'm not familiar with the Frontline programs.

As to a reading list, here's a starter list...not complete, but complete enough to put the final nails in the coffin (so to speak) of Jesus and the religion of Xianity for anyone objectively looking:

"The Truth About Jesus" by M.M. Mangasarian, available free online.

"The Jesus Puzzle" by Earl Doherty

The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke

and Peter Gandy

"The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S. (real name, D. Murdock)

"The Suns of God" by Acharya S.

"Who Was Jesus" by Acharya S.

"The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine (yes, the American Revolution writer)

"The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

"Forgery in Christianity" by Joseph Wheless

"The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man" by Robert Price

"The Essential Writings of Robert Ingersoll" by Ingersoll

"The Origins of Christianity" essay by Acharya S. available free online

"Why I Am No Longer A Christian" essay by Kendall Hobbs available free online

....and many more by the above authors, not to mention many more books and essays by other writers. If you just read the works above, you'd have your hands full. And if you're seeking a full bibliography, you'll have to find it on your own...my job here is finished.

[sag111 (imported)]

Why dont all of you read a Case for Christ written by a man who didnt beleave in God but after writing this book he knew God was real.I see so many people who want to do things their way and not worry about life after death now to me thats real faith.You are betting all their is you are right and the bible is wrong and never think what will be your fate.Some say yes I beleave their is a God but we just dont want to beleave in that God.Well know this even the devil beleaves their is a God.I would not respond to this thread but I cant sit and say nothing when I see the people God loves so much mock and make fun of him.But do remember this his heart aches for all of you and their is no way I can stand back and not let you know his heart.The bible was written over thousands of years by many people and the bible never contradicts its self like so many other books.Try reading Mathew Mark Luke and John and you will see this love for you not hate that man is so capable of.Open your heart and minds and read a Case for Christ you never know where God will lead you.Love sag111

[sag111 (imported)]

Theirs something else I want to remind every one who thinks he can just do things his or her way.Remember if I am wrong no problem I just loved his people as he wants all of us to do.But if you are wrong and the bible is right the price you will pay you better know about and be ready for.