A Club Membership offer I cannot refuse.

[The Lurker (imported)]

See what I mean?!?!? These People are AMAZING (if not also a little unfocused-DEACON!)...

You have come to the right place.

[Joe_Trotter (imported)]

Thank you all for your sympathy and support.

I very much appreciate it.

A few comments in response.

Deacon, thank you for the observation. From the book, however, I believe this is what Godfather Vito Corleone told Tom, after Johnny Fontane’s audience.

Considering: thank you for your long post. I know how much time and effort those take. I personally believe that most eunuchs join “the club” voluntarily. I will be very pro-active about joining, too. The alternative is unacceptable.

Yes, I am concerned about feminization. I do not want to have breasts. Que Sera, Sera, however.

I am not so naïve about Testosterone. It made me the man I am today, but it is not what I am.

I am not Gay, but I have friends that are Gay, that I have not seen in many years. When someone can explain to me why I like girls, we can sit down and rationally discuss it. Until then, anything else is speculation, and deserves the contempt I hold for Aristotle’s rationalization that a vacuum cannot exist: elegant reasoning, ludicrously wrong in the absence of facts.

Curiously, I think I will have no problems dealing with most of the folks in this group. You may not know the roots of your motivations, but you know why you are here. I have much more difficulty with my friends that are knee-jerk fundamentalist Baptists. They don’t know why they are opposed to Evolution, and prefer not to find out. They think that if Cosmology and Geology support Evolution, then those areas of research must also be products of the Devil. I fear they will be at great risk when “Old Scratch” really does come calling.

Jesus, thank you for the offer. I am swimming in information right now, and am trying to organize it a little. I will send you an email soon, with my outside email address.

Thanks again, to all of you, for your kind thoughts and words.

[BudleyBare (imported)]

Joe,

Welcome to a very warm and supportive group of really neato people. Like you, my initial introduction into the world of castration was for medical reasons, but in my case it was not cancer.

If you are interested and have time, you can review my lengthy thread regarding my situation, experiences, decisions, etc. at http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8793 on this web site. However, I suspect you are really in data overload right now.

Like comments made by others, you have come to the best source for information and support as you continue on your journey. Unlike the medical community with which you are dealing right now and their cold, biased biochemistry mindset, you will find this group to be supportive of the entire person, and quite knowledgeable as well.

I participated in the MoM (Meeting of Members) last year, and recommend that you consider such at a future date. This year would probably be too soon for you, given that it will be in August, and I suspect you have higher priority concerns right now. But should you ever make it to a MoM, you will find an incredible group of very diverse people, all of whom are warm, supportive, non-judgmental, and just downright fun to be with.

I wish you all the best, and ask that you keep us informed as time permits.

With love,

Bud

[A-1 (imported)]

Joe,

Radical prostectomy is not the treatment of choice for slow-growing prostate Ca these days.

If that is indeed what you have, seek out a teaching hospital, usually a medical school close to you and seek treatment there. These medical centers usually offer the closest and cheapest QUALITY treatments.

Barring that, find a big name medical center (like the Mayo Clinic) and seek treatment there.

Suprapubic prostectomy is the operation that if not properly done can destroy your ability to achieve an erection. That surgery is NOT commonplace these days. In fact, it is as uncommon as an open abdominal surgery to remove a gallbladder. (Gall bladder surgeries are done with a laproscope and 4 - 5 1" or less incisions.)

DO not get this type of surgery (radical prostectomy) without a second or maybe even a third opinion.

Radiation is always an option according to cancer cell type. This is whyu you need to consult an oncologist, also.

Keep us informed. I suspect that your libido problem at this point has a significant psychological component to it. Hang in there, and keep on doing what you are doing.

[Paolo]

My boss's father, now 83, was diagnosed with prostate cancer about 10 years ago.

At the same time, his GP (same age, classmate) was also diagnosed. Having been trained that radical prostectomy was the preferred treatment, the GP went for that. Both of them were given 6 months to live, given their state of spread of the cancer. Boss's dad refused it and went with a natural herbal treatment supervised by a doctor who studied homeopathic remedies. He also went for the radiation treatments as well.

6 months later, the GP was dead.

Boss's dad is still up and going and has only had to have a minor TURP procedure done since. No spreading, no complications. I don't know what all he did/does, but I will try and find out.

Welcome to the forums and do keep us posted.

[John Sheraton (imported)]

First, take it easy to think some things out. The first thing is to click onto the National Comprehensive Cancer Network: www.nccn.org Here you can see which clinic is closest to you and what prostate treatments there are. The clinic is the most honest place to be. Your local urologist, in my opinion, may want to put his daughter through college, get that Mercedes, and keep his surgical team warmed up -- all at your expense; that is, whether you need an operation or not. Get to a clinic. Medicine is practiced at the clinic.

Secondly, find out what your PSA is and what your Gleason Score is. If the Gleason score is over 6, you start to get serious about doing something -- like, get the Seeds, they are the least invasive way of getting prostate cancer cured. Plus, find out what the change has been since your last PSA which if it is four or under indicates nothing is wrong. Find out those things at the clinic. It is interesting you did not mention them; perhaps, you haven't been told; all the more reason to distrust your Urologist, in my opinion.

Thirdly, no worry about your sexuality in your fifties. Male sexuality is ever going, environmentally based, perhaps your wife is less responsive following menopause.

The www.nccn.org will show you how well organized this entire prostate issue is. It is not a pat on the rump by the Doctor saying "you should do it".

[Joe_Trotter (imported)]

John, thank you for the comments.

I will follow up with the clinic information you provided.

I am in the St. Louis area. We have the Barnes-Jewish medical center here. The Urology clinic here is rated number 9 in the country, and they are on my provider list from my medical insurance company.

I have an appointment Monday to see one of their primary professors in surgery. This one teaches laparoscopic surgery for the prostate. I am usually good at pronunciation, but I can spell "laparoscopic" better than I can pronounce it.

One of the studies I found on-line found that disappointing patient outcomes, and subsequent infections, varied inversely with the frequency of prostate surgeries performed. The guys who do it all the time are best at getting it right and not killing you with infections.

A few more details - I was quite brief in beginning.

I share your suspicions about my first Urologist. I have substantial distrust of physicians, just as a matter of course. Two things put me off of him. First was being blind-sided by the biopsy, then him bragging that he knew it from the beginning.

The other was that he lied to me. The funny part is that I do not know what his lie was. What I do know is that his face and body language fairly screamed "I AM LYING". The majority of people are honest. They are not practiced liars. When unprepared, they have obvious "tells" that broadcast their state of mind. I think he nearly sprained something when he executed that "tell".

After that, I would not let him neuter my dog, much less allow him to touch me with a scalpel. Indeed, he

may want to put his daughter through college, get that Mercedes, and keep his surgical team warmed up

He very briefly described four options - essentially castration, chemical or physical, external radiation, implanted seed radiation, and radical retropubic prostatectomy. Had he used the word "laparoscopic", I would now be able to pronounce it.

Moving on - my Gleason score is 6, according to him.

I am prepared to believe that number. The combination of a palpable deformation of my prostate, a ridiculous Free PSA count, and observable cancer cells constituting 75% of one of my 12 biopsy samples (medium growth rate) convince me that his estimate is about as close as anyone is going to get without more serious cutting.

My PSA level is 3.4, and has been so for at least two years. It was an out of range PSA level that had my GP send me to this guy in the first place. A second blood test came back with the same level I had before. That was when they measured my free PSA.

My free PSA needed to be above 15%, to be comfortable. It is below 3%. The sources I have found online suggest that if the free PSA is well below 15, like 8 or 9, a biopsy should be performed. If the biopsy is performed and nothing is found, but the free PSA is below 5 or 6, another biopsy is needed. Reading between the lines - "the cancer is there, you just have not found it yet."

If my Gleason score were lower - less than 4, I would be finding a way to get the seeds implanted. If the growth rate were low, instead of medium, and the Gleason score was 4, I would still use the seeds.

A Gleason score above 6 is considered high risk. A 6 is not comforting, to me.

I found two references on-line that suggested that some prostate cancers interfere with sex drive.

I am in my second marriage. We have been seeing each other for five years, ecstatically married for four, except for the sex. My sex drive has plunged in that time. My wonderful wife will work it out with me, but she misses the sex.

Again, thank you for the information.

[John Sheraton (imported)]

Joe, of the approaches to prostate cancer you mentioned (from surgery to seeds), with a Gleason scoure of 6 and a PSA of 3.4, the approached I'd take is "watchful waiting". That means you check in with you Urologist -- hopefully, that clinci in St. Louis is a part of the NCCN system -- every year or twice a year to see if anything has changed during which time somebody may recommend you change your diet around to include more greens and cooked tomates. That, Joe, is the level of concern I'd have with your scores. Your Doctor's flaying around with all those remidies proves, in my opinion, he is a lier. Before getting to a clinci, I had a thug for a urologist, a young good looking guy with wonderful fingers to shuve up my butt (sooo nice) who lied to me, too. Those are thugs, medical thiefs to beautify it if necessary. Don't let him touch you, don't park in his parking lot. Get to a clinic and I'll bet they find you in real good shape. This could be a happy ending to a serious story, an urgent endeavor to not die of prostate cancer which would be real real dume while avoiding the band of outlaws who have destroyed so many males lives unnecessarily. Good Luck, Joe.

[John Sheraton (imported)]

Joe, your Barnes-Jewish hospital is a member of the NCCN organization. How lucky can you get. Today is your day. The tide has turned in your favor. P.S. I am not a Doctor. I am a normal alert citizen trying to get the best honest medical treatment. Make an appointment with their Urology department. You're on your way to controlling any anquish you may have had (rightfully so, by the way) about your prostate. And, "watchful waiting" is a verified diagnosis along with all the others. Your current Doctor simply avoided telling you that in order to advance his own economics. A pure thug. Today is almost like becoming a freed man, at last. Good luck. Good health.

[Joe_Trotter (imported)]

How droll.

Monday, last, I called the first Urologist's office, and asked about transmitting my medical file to my next Urologist. I named the Urologist, one of the top guys at Barnes-Jewish, because I had to tell them where to send it.

The receptionist I talked to said that they routinely get the files out the same day they receive the HIPPA release.

That was Monday.

Today, I called back to follow-up on a detail and spoke to a different clerk. She knew who I was. Hmmm.

Today, the clerk I talked to said that the file will not go out this week. She said that the first Urologist only releases files after he edits and reviews them. He only reviews files for release during the weekend. That is his policy. Obviously, this new policy has been implemented since Monday. My strong feeling is that it is for my records, only.

No way around it, that smells.

Anyone want to bet that my Gleason score magically goes down between now and Monday?

Now I am suspicious about everything.