fluttering sensation

[Hash (imported)]

I have to disagree with some of our experts. It is well known in the medical community that men with prostate cancer can dramatically slow the spread of cancer by removing the testes. Orchiectomy was the "gold standard" for many years, meaning that castration was the standard way to slow the spread of prostate cancer. (Now the gold standard is drugs). With castration, there is an immediate reduction in testosterone and over a period of just hours, testosterone plummets and the spreading cancer is arrested. The cancer stops spreading, at least for several months and for a fortunate few, even years. It's interesting that testosterone causes prostate cancer to spread, but that's a different story. However, with the dramatic plunge and cessation of testosterone production, there are immediate and often dramatic changes that occur in the male body. The effects of these changes are "felt" in noticeable ways, fluttering, gurgling sensation, quivering breasts, muscle spasms, eventual hot flashes or flushing, depression, etc., etc. Some feel these effects quickly, some less so, but they will feel them to some degree. Consider this, if your body is deprived of insulin or thyroxine (think thyroid), how soon will you feel the effects? Days, weeks, or hours? So I believe that it is possible for Randy to be "feeling" the effects of testosterone deprivation even though he has not been castrated for more than a few days. But I'm not a urologist, just a wannabee Hash

[gandalf (imported)]

It took me about 3 and a half weeks to start having hot flashes. I put up with them until I saw the Dr. a week later. (they were not a bother as yet and sometimes with my penchant to be cold [thyroid problem] they felt goodeven in July). When the Dr put me on HRT, it took only one dose to shut the hot flashes down. Took longer to get to the place to have erections again. Have not had the "flutters" that were mentioned. But I am at that age when men tend to develop a fat layer under their breasts anyway.

[kristoff]

I have to disagree with some of our experts. It is well known in the medical community that men with prostate cancer can dramatically slow the spread of cancer by removing the testes. Orchiectomy was the "gold standard" for many years, meaning that castration was the standard way to slow the spread of prostate cancer. (Now the gold standard is drugs). With castration, there is an immediate reduction in testosterone and over a period of just hours, testosterone plummets and the spreading cancer is arrested. The cancer stops spreading, at least for several months and for a fortunate few, even years. It's interesting that testosterone causes prostate cancer to spread, but that's a different story. However, with the dramatic plunge and cessation of testosterone production, there are immediate and often dramatic changes that occur in the male body. The effects of these changes are "felt" in noticeable ways, fluttering, gurgling sensation, quivering breasts, muscle spasms, eventual hot flashes or flushing, depression, etc., etc. Some feel these effects quickly, some less so, but they will feel them to some degree. Consider this, if your body is deprived of insulin or thyroxine (think thyroid), how soon will you feel the effects? Days, weeks, or hours? So I believe that it is possible for Randy to be "feeling" the effects of testosterone deprivation even though he has not been castrated for more than a few days. But I'm not a urologist, just a wannabee Hash

Many believe what they wish. The experience of many here, surgical and chemical, starkly contradicts you, including my own and that of several others close by. There is no rapid "plunge" within such a short time. The body takes time to deplete serum levels, as well as to begin to react, the same as when the body is shedding other elements.

[nonuts (imported)]

Fluttering sensations like this are a very common nerve/muscle spasm. They can be caused by changes in the bodies chemistry. Those changes can be brought on by stress, exhaustion, depression, anxiety, dehydration, vitamin depletion, and about a million other known and unknown causes.

Still discuss it with Kimmel.

As to changes in the bodies serum levels of T, if you're T levels were already sub-par, IE near eunuch levels then you could see some minor chemical reactions quite quickly. Chances are you will not notice the major chemical reactions, like hot flashes as dramatically. If your T levels were HIGH, then you likely not notice much until the levels drop dramatically, usually in 14-30 days. Patients on depo testosterone, actually take longer for this depletion to occur because it builds up in the tissue over time.

I know one eunuch, who kept getting spontaneous erections, even 2 months after castration, it was like he was still intact...so the variables are very wide. Though the clinical median is the 14-30 range.

[mrt (imported)]

Some Eunuchs never loose the ability to get erections and are still sexualy active from what I've read.

[plix (imported)]

T levels take time to deplete, and as nonuts says, your levels prior to castration play a role in a how long the depletion takes. Generally the younger you are at time of castration, the higher your levels are, and the longer they take to deplete.

I don't know exactly how long it took for me because I never had levels tested close to the surgery. But I do know that my first post-op test, about 75 days after the surgery, showed my T levels within eunuch range.

Of course just because T levels have depleted does not mean you will feel like a eunuch. That seems to take even longer than it does for the T levels to decrease. I was getting erections and having sexual thoughts months after the surgey. There is more than we know to the process of libido and sexual arousal, including the action of the brain itself. Many eunuchs are still getting erect and having sexual thoughts even years later. Younger eunuchs tend to retain libido and ability for quite some time after the surgery.

I also agree with nonuts about shots seeming to take longer than natural T to deplete.

[Hash (imported)]

There seems to be some disagreement even in the medical community, here are two articles, the first states that castrate levels are achieved in a few hours. The second article contradicts this but is based upon adrenal secretion of testosterone. The third, well read it. Medical community opinion in the rapid drop of testosterone following bi-lateral orchiectomy (castration):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548879

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/ab ... .tb00410.x

http://www.hypertext.org/ENGLISH/HB.html

[kristoff]

There seems to be some disagreement even in the medical community, here are two articles, the first states that castrate levels are achieved in a few hours. The second article contradicts this but is based upon adrenal secretion of testosterone. The third, well read it. Medical community opinion in the rapid drop of testosterone following bi-lateral orchiectomy (castration):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548879

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/ab ... .tb00410.x

http://www.hypertext.org/ENGLISH/HB.html

The first abstract states nothing of pre-test androgen levels for a baseline. It also substantiates at least a 2-3 week decline for chemical castration. Abstract number two, and the third article, provide no substantiation of the position, but does not contradict it either. I am still highly skeptical.

[Hash (imported)]

I've been thinking about this and since I've been low dosing on testosterone, I've done some testing on myself. Last year, my new endoctrinologist scheduled me to get my testosterone tested. Since she didn't even check to see if I was a eunuch, I wanted to prove to her that I was. So about three days prior to my blood test, I stopped using my testosterone cream. On the morning of the blood test I was feeling low & tired, but serene. My results were: 82ml of testosterone. 82! Now it's true that my low dosing puts my testosterone levels between 180-225, so probably, had it been 800 to start with, my testosterone levels would have still been in the normal range. But what it proved to me, was that getting down to castrate levels, at least in my case, only took a few days. By the way, I don't do this often, for some reason, it messed me up mentally & emotionally for weeks afterward, even though I started back on my old regimen. Perhaps, once you're a eunuch, testosterone depletes from your system faster. Hash

[Kangan (imported)]

I started having hot flashes almost immediately after castration. Also, my prostate gland shrank within a few weeks. Six months later I have very little ejaculate - only a few drops. Hot flashes have ceased. Erections are not as strong but still possible.