Transitioning at work and in all of my life

[gpb3aol (imported)]

Hi Danya,

I agree with MrT more than the others, maybe this is a two strikes and your out situation. I'd let it ride, and if it happened again then chat with her, and deicide if more action is needed.

Just my thoughts.

Love Pauline.

[Danya (imported)]

I would simply tell her that your right in the middle of some serious changes and that there are some dense people who r

eally DO call people Freak and mean it.

Hi Danya,

I agree with MrT more than the others, maybe this is a two strikes and your out situation. I'd let it ride, and if it happened again then ch

at with her, and deicide if more action is needed.

Love Pauline.

Dear MrT and Pauline,

I appreciate your input, as always. Turns out the young woman apologized on her own today. She realized she was out of line, admitted to being insensitive and apologized profusely.

Problem solved.

Hugs,

Danya

[Danya (imported)]

I have spent the last few days at an off-site conference held at the college where I got my undergraduate degree. When I was a student there, I thought it was practically heaven on earth. Silly me! This is a school associated with a fairly liberal mainline Christian faith. When I attended, I was hard at work convincing myself I was straight.

Over a year ago, I attended a dinner at the college sponsored by the student GLBT group. There was no such group when I was a student and they are a relatively new organization on campus. It was an enjoyable evening but some of what I learned that night was very disturbing. An alumna who is now a professor at a college in Iowa was the main speaker. Turns out she was one of the very first students to be out as gay while at college. Not only that, she actively pushed for GLBT rights. This was in the 1990s! This woman thinks that it was only the fact that both her parents were faculty members at the college that enabled her to get away with pushing things so far. She was able to get the college to change some policies.

She was an excellent speaker. Turns out that when I attended (I graduated way back in 1973), there were students thrown out of school simply for admitting to a coach, for instance, a gay orientation. What really bothered me, though, was that this kind of thing happened fairly regularly even into the 1990s. The current college president said a few words a the end of the evening about how far the college had come. As I will explain in a little bit, they still have a long way to go.

What I found recently on the college web site shows a great deal of ignorance about transgender people. The dean says they have never had a trans student. Yeah, right! This school has existed since the late 1800s and they have never had a trans student of any type.

I am including here part of what I found on the college web site on this issue. I am leaving out the name of the college and the dean. I have thrown in some editorial comments in bold, italicized print. (I am very angry as I write this, as you may notice! ) The rest of the text is right from the school web site.

"Although the XYZ College Non-Discrimination Policy does not include gender identity/expression, Dean ABC has thought about trans inclusion on campus. [How very, uh, thoughtful of him!] While it has been difficult to focus on policy because no specific students have brought issues of trans inclusion to administration [Does this dean suffer from Attention Deficit Disorder so that he needs a trans student to help him focus?], ABC has thought about it in the context of future planning, since “it’s going to be an issue for a current or prospective student at some point.” He says it is hard to make a case for broad changes, such as amending the Non-Discrimination Clause, when the specific need has not been presented. [I suspect any student with a trans identity of any sort may be too afraid to say anything. Besides, there are many examples of other colleges and corporations that include protections for gender identity and expression. Why not demonstrate to prospective students that the college wants to attract a truly diverse student body? Perhaps they don't want that at all.] While he understands that the school cannot solve every problem a trans student might have, he is confident that a trans student would not be at risk or discriminated against for bringing such concerns to his office or the Residence Life office. [What would be the risk outside his office???]

...Should amending the clause to include gender identity/expression come up, the decision would rest with the President of the College and his or her Cabinet and Board. The ability of such an amendment to pass would depend, for the most part, on the support and acceptance of the President...

Church-affiliated colleges tend to follow XYZ’s example in adopting inclusive/progressive policies. Because church affiliation can mean that members of administration have strong faith-based opinions regarding issues of gender and sexuality, colleges may be wary of causing controversy. Were XYZ to adopt gender identity/expression under the protections of the Non-Discrimination Clause, other colleges might follow suit. [I certainly hope they would, but apparently my alma mater is less concerned about making a clear statement of welcome and support for all students than they are about setting a precedent that might be viewed as controversial]"

I am really angry about this and I felt uncomfortable during the time I spent on campus this week. I will contact the college about this issue when I can produce a calm, well-reasoned yet assertive letter.

[Danya (imported)]

I visited the web sites of the two other post-secondary schools I attended. One is in a rather liberal northeastern state. The other is in the Deep South. Neither is associated with a church. Both have policies welcoming trans students.

The northeastern university has an office for social justice that works with GLBT persons. They offer extensive TG resources. When I legally change my name, this school will go as far as modifying my transcripts and diploma to show my new name.

The other university has an official welcome page for TG students with a list of resources.

How can a school that promotes itself as having a Christian mission (my undergraduate college which has a reputation of being towards the liberal end of things) be less accepting of human diversity than secular schools? I know how churches and church-related organizations can justify their stance on GLBT issues. I don't agree with their arguments. On an emotional level, I find their justifications appalling.

[mrt (imported)]

I blurted this out once and someone said it was good.

I have a really hard time seeing Jesus say, "Fuck you! Your gay." John Lennon said once that he thought Jesus was cool it was just some of his followers that were "thick" (Stupid)

And I think the Bible is filled with this. He tries over and over to get across the simple message that its about LOVE. God IS Love. How many times did his followers get it wrong or fall asleep when the good stuff was going to happen?

I mean when you have all this hate your neighbor stuff? Your just not getting it. Think of the few times that Jesus was surprised (Impressed?) Like the Faith of the Roman Soldier that he could cure his man without being there. Or the non Jewish lady who said even dogs can eat crumbs from under the table etc. I guess what I'm saying is don't be surprised when others don't "get it" but DO INSIST!

And as to the TG vrs GLBT thing? I dunno... The guy from the 700 club said that he was ok with TS people. He thought it was "medical" and that anyone who was worried what God thought should quit worrying. Its not a sin.

Re: the female / female thing. I assume you know that your going through puberty again? *Remember I've been there and done that. Its just puberty of your new "assigned" gender and what 12 or 13 year old girl didn't have a crush on a female friend? I'm NOT saying its impossible or even wrong that you might be a lesbian but I think its almost assured that your going to have many (all?) the experience a girl has as she becomes a woman and having raised two girls (One Hetro the other too young still to know) girlhood same sex "crushes" are normal.

What I think is different is the sort of relationship you will want for a lifetime partner and what keeps you awake at night sexually going "hummmmm..."



Anyway, have fun and enjoy this ride. Your truly going where no man has (can) go...

- MrT

[Danya (imported)]

And I think the Bible is filled with this. He tries over and over to get across the simple message that its about LOVE. God IS Love.

I agree completely, MrT. In my view, one of the core messages of the Gospels is: "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."

I guess what I'm saying is don't be surprised when others don't "get it" but DO INSIST!

I will 'insist' when I contact my undergraduate college about their failure to include TG protections in their non-discrimination statement. Before I do this, I want to find the most effective channels for being heard by the most people. I will probably contact the Dean's office first and then the college president. I will also contact the school's GLBT student group and may write an editorial for the school newspaper. I expect to at least get a response from school officials since they take alumni relationships very seriously. Whatever I end up doing is unlikely to have a serious impact on college policy. I think at the least some students may feel they have a spokesperson and that they are not alone.

And as to the TG vrs GLBT thing? I dunno... The guy from the 700 club said that he was ok with TS people. He thought it was "medical" and that anyone who was worried what God thought should quit worrying. Its not a sin.

Using the 700 Club argument is unlikely to give me any advantage with this school, but I can try.

Re: the female / female thing. I assume you know that your going through puberty again?

Yes.....

*Remember I've been there and done that. Its just puberty of your new "assigned" gender and what 12 or 13 year old girl didn't have a crush on a female friend? I'm NOT saying its impossible or even wrong that you might be a lesbian but I think its almost assured that your going to have many (all?) the experience a girl has as she becomes a woman and having raised two girls (One Hetro the other too young still to know) girlhood same sex "crushes" are normal.

What I think is different is the sort of relationship you will want for a lifetime partner and what keeps you awake at night sexually going "hummmmm..."

- MrT

Not having any sisters, I really have no clue as to what puberty is like for a typical female child. So I really appreciate the information you provided here.

BTW, I am meeting my 'crushee' (?), the consultant friend whom I've had the crush over, next week for dinner and an evening out. I think I'll be able to control myself!

Hugs,

Danya

[Danya (imported)]

Two good things happened today.

1. I delivered my legal name change application to the county court house. After the county sheriff's office does a criminal background check, and assuming I come out clean , the court will send me a letter with the hearing date. I will need to take two witnesses with me to the hearing. They must have known me for at least a year and be willing to state that I am of sound mind (many here might dispute that! ), that I am not trying to get out of debt payments, that I am not hiding out from the cops and so on.

After the name change is effective (this shouldn't take more than a month), my HRT physician will write a letter to the state saying that I am a transitioning female on estrogen. The state will inform the driver's license folks who will then not only change my name but also by gender on a new license. I'll also have a much nicer picture on my new license! At least I can hope for that.

I was so happy to have gotten the ball rolling on this that I was whistling as I left the county government building. Then I stopped to wonder if whistling is a typical female activity. After a few seconds' thought, I concluded 'the hell with it'. I enjoy whistling and will continue to do so whether or not it is considered a feminine characteristic. The idea with transitioning is to become more fully myself, not to fit into anyone's image of how a female acts.

2. I have been stressed out lately because of uncertainty about my job security. I am realistic about this. There really is no security in any job or anything else in life for that matter. I was laid off in my early 30s so I know what that feels like.

What was causing me stress now is the fact that I am in the process of transitioning during a time of uncertain direction for my company. There have been some layoffs, too. My job responsibilities are becoming less clear. If I were to be laid off, I know it is often very difficult for a transitioning woman to find new employment.

I spoke with my terrific boss about this early today. He understands the issues for transitioning TG workers. His response was essentially I need have no worries at all about retaining my position, everyone still loves my work, there will be more than enough for me to do and so on. I know he cannot guarantee anything but I now feel I can let go of my fears about my job.

Even if I knew there was some likelihood of my being laid off, I would continue transitioning. My life is so different now and much better than when I was male. I'm not at all sure how I would pay for things without a steady income, but I'd find a solution.

[JesusA (imported)]

I was so happy to have gotten the ball rolling on this that I was whistling as I left the county government building. Then I stopped to wonder if whistling is a typical female activity. After a few seconds' thought, I concluded 'the hell with it'. I enjoy whistling and will continue to do so whether or not it is considered a feminine characteristic. The idea with transitioning is to become my fully myself, not to fit into anyone's image of how a female acts.

Well, there’s always the proverb

Whistling girls and crowing hens

Always come to some bad ends.

It gets cited in Wolfgang Meider’s Dictionary of American Proverbs, where it is listed with wide distribution across the U.S. and Canada. Meider’s earliest citation, though, is from Kelly’s Scottish Proverbs, published in 1721.

It would take too long to go through each of the 24 volumes of Proverbium: The Yearbook of International Proverb Scholarship that’s sitting on my shelves to see if there’s been a scholarly article on it in the major journal in the field.

I think that sexism has receded sufficiently, though, for this to no longer be a problem. More women whistling in public may be the answer.

[mrt (imported)]

I wish I was better with Scripture but the gist of one part of the Bible were these "religion experts" trying their best to trip up Jesus by asking complicated questions about what was allowed and how this one of God's laws was connected to each other *The idea being (my opinion) to trick him into contradicting himself or God. Anyway he said (I'm not quoting)

Look dummies... Let me make it simple.

First rule Love God with all your heart.

Second rule Love everyone else the same way.

Got it?

Ok, as I type this I'm worried that some day I'll be facing God and there will this note in the book of life.... "Look dummies????" That is of course NOT what Jesus said I'm ahh... trying to make a point. And don't remember the exact words. I'm sure someone can Google it.

Platonic crushes over women are normal for guys devoted to their wives as well. No, don't bring up Dr M... I adore a number of women (Yourself included of course) but its not the same as the way I feel about Mrs T. Ie the hot and sweaty wow when I get home are you ever going to be worn out stuff... Some people are just "nifty" and you just become a "fan" I think... Celebs get that a lot I think. Which is probably why some that have good relationships are doing it with people who don't know they are someone important.

[Danya (imported)]

Well, there’

s always the proverb

Whistling girls and crowing hens

Always come to some bad ends.

I think that sexism has receded sufficiently, though, for this to no longer be a problem. More women whistling in public may be the answer.

I wasn't going to respond to this tonight because it is late and I am tired. Despite my best intentions to head to bed, I couldn't let this drop because I found it so funny.

So I did a web search on whistling women and came up with a number of variations on the evils of whistling females. Of course, I have no clue if my single, one-page source (http://www.everything2.org/e2node/A%252 ... 2520to%252 0no%2520good) is nearly as reliable as Jesus' 24-volume set of scholarly musings. The author of the web page I found apparently goes my the name 'icicle'. Doesn't sound very authoritative, but hey, you never know. I found the following two variations on the whistling woman theme very funny.

"A whistling woman and a crowing hen, Will frighten the Devil out of his den." and " A whistling woman and a crowing hen, Are neither good for God nor men'. Icicle claims both of these were used in 18th century London.

What I found so interesting this morning is the fact that I was stopped in the middle of whistling by the thought that making non-verbal sounds through my contorted lips might, indeed, be viewed as masculine behavior. Icicle has some interesting ideas on why whistling has come to be viewed as something women just shouldn't do.

The following is from the same URL I reference above:

I started thinking about an old theatre superstition: never whistle in a theatre this one goes back to the 17th century in London when sailors often ran the ropes and rigging in theaters when they got sick of the sea. Sailors used whistles to alert each other of falling objects. So whistling in a theatre could have caused chaos and delayed the opening by breaking the set.

Since sailors whistle, perhaps it was seen as a "carefree and loose" (like sailors) -- these have never been socially acceptable traits for a woman (especially a woman who is in your home, as opposed to one who's in your motel...)

Whistling is also fairly "lower class" -poor men had nothing to play song on so they used the mouth-flute of the whistle to make their songs.

Maybe it is the kiss-like puckering of the whistle. (are whistles seductive?")

When Hens Begin To Crow is the title of a study by Sylvia Tamale of gender and politics in Uganda. In fact it seems that many feminists have taken up the cause of reversing the whistling metaphor. In Uganda and in the American South crowing hens must be killed right away or they will bring bad luck. Is the proverb sexist?

Maybe women are meant to hum? (humming men always seemed suspicious to me)

Even after reading everything I could find on the subject I still don't know why whistling is thought of as masculine. But I hope I've at least opened a few doors so that we can solve this mystery.