Testro Gel

[mrt (imported)]

Your coming in from this from the body builder thing correct?

Let me restate this - Cite your facts. Why is it called "Replacement" therapy? Does some work faster or in smaller doses was not the question. Unless I blathered incorrectly which is possible. Using Testosterone shuts your testicles down. Correct? Thats my point.

A couple of other points.

Testosterone (as does DHEA and?) all convert to Estrogen but its far more about how overweight you are then the type of Testosterone. Is some slightly more effective? Sure but its 6 of one and a half dozen of the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase

talks about this a bit but Google has far more links. Avoid the ones selling creams, pills and muscle building scams of course.

Cypionate is many things but long lasting (lasting weeks?!) At least not by what I can report or anyone else I know that uses it. I did a chart on the peak level (Which I deleted) and I came up with one week or a shade more if you wanted a normal male level peak not "crazy" and a dip that didn't make you want to bite your nails off waiting for the next shot.

I don't think you followed my point on regulation. I believe it was about the people abusing it and the outcome of that abuse. Personally Jose Conseco's shrunken up balls mean nothing (Well ok it made me laugh to read his Ex Wifes book about them) to me and if his balls shrunk up to a pinhead and started on fire I doubt I could care less. It probably helps that I'm NOT a A's fan.

And I don't know (or care) that the DEA, FDA or AMA agree with me or not but clearly in professional sports we have serious abuse that is making being a baseball fan (for one example) difficult. What is the point of cheering a guy who cheats to win? Or fielding a team of non steroid abusers to play a team full of them? Even Wrestling is ruined! These perpetually pissed off giganoto guys with the Cro Mag foreheads just don't do it for me like the Crusher or the Bruiser.

Frankly I hoped all that stuff ended when those Russian "Women" won every event in the Olympics and were caught full of more Testosterone then the California Governator.

[mrt (imported)]

For me the gel did a lot better than the shots. Even 5 g a day gave me much better erectile function than I ever got with 100/week of the shots. But maybe the gel just needed to kick start things a little because now the shots are doing better than they were before I took the gel, although still far below what would be desired for someone on TRT.

Squeak to your Doctor. If you don't have a good sex drive, energy, mood etc speak loud and clear. He/she should listen and act! If not? Vote with your feet and look for a different GP. Or err? Endo? Whatever you use.

[Testman (imported)]

As I have stated before cypionate will last weeks, but quickly dies down at even 5 days. But that wasn't my point at all and you know it. The point was is that the reason the Cypionate ester was added was to make it last more than a DAY and to allow the oil to hold more than just 10mg of testosterone, but that doing so changes its properties and when that happens, test is no longer test, and that is relevant to this discussion, as my initial point was suppression, which does happen at different degress with diferent forms of testosterone. Anyone here who has ever used 'Sten' knows that small amounts will shrink your nuts instantly! But is it abuse if your nuts shrink so badly? If huge doses of Sustanon do not shrink nuts all that bad, is huge doses of Sustanon not abuse?

BTW, Do you know the doses athletes use? I do. You would be surprised at just how low a dose they use and that is not abuse. Do you know that most athletes have traditionally used only 1.2 IU / day of GH? Less than what docs prescribe for HRT. Because the full amount actually hinders performance. But the media still likes to throw the word "abuse" around.

In some countries, testosterone or Deca shots are legally available for men as a male contraceptive. The dose they use is 200mg/wk. Your testosterone level may get past the "normal" range too. But if an athlete dose it, it becomes "abuse".

[Testman (imported)]

The fact is, you are commenting on things you truly know very little about and then why are you soooo upset with athletes? If those guys were regular guys, many people wouldn't even watch the sport, just like many people wouldn't watch race cars if they only went 55 MPH.

What I always found so ironic, is how people let the media decide for them what is taboo and what isn't. I have always preferred to think for myself and let people make their own decisions, instead of this iron handed approach so many Americans relish.

[Testman (imported)]

But back to the MAIN point of this thread, there is some suppression and a blood test is a great way to know for sure what is gong on, as there are some men who don't even suffer ANY suppression at all, even on 2,000mg/wk of cypionate, and others suffer suppression, even on low doses of propionate. So do a follow up blood test. There is only one more thing to know with regard to your blood test, if you are on Cypionate or any other form of synthetic testosterone, remember that they are generally less androgenic (male-like) than natural testosterone is. So, even if you get on some shots and this boosts your level into the normal range, remember that it needs to be a bit higher than that, as maybe the top of the normal range, and not the bottom, as synthetic testosterone (The kind that is in injectables) is weaker than the testosterone found in Androgel. Androgel is great stuff, its just that even on 5 G per day (That is 5mg per day of actual testosterone that gets in the blood), your level will go up, but it may need to go up a bit more than that for the full effect. Don't let your doctor forget that. And if he wants to quibble about it, then walk away.

[mrt (imported)]

Testman - Your comments come as a huge relief. Now, can the people who blast me for being "pro" Testosterone on EA please direct them to Testman?

Thanks!

As I have stated before cypionate will last weeks, but quickly dies down at even 5 days. But that wasn't my point at all and you know it. The point was is that the reason the Cypionate ester was added was to make it last more than a DAY and to allow the oil to hold more than just 10mg of testosterone, but that doing so changes its properties and when that happens, test is no longer test, and that is relevant to this discussion, as my initial point was suppression, which does happen at different degress with diferent forms of testosterone. Anyone here who has ever used 'Sten' knows that small amounts will shrink your nuts instantly! But is it abuse if your nuts shrink so badly? If huge doses of Sustanon do not shrink nuts all that bad, is huge doses of Sustanon not abuse?

BTW, Do you know the doses athletes use? I do. You would be surprised at just how low a dose they use and that is not abuse. Do you know that most athletes have traditionally used only 1.2 IU / day of GH? Less than what docs prescribe for HRT. Because the full amount actually hinders performance. But the media still likes to throw the word "abuse" around.

In some countries, testosterone or Deca shots are legally available for men as a male contraceptive. The dose they use is 200mg/wk. Your testosterone level may get past the "normal" range too. But if an athlete dose it, it becomes "abuse".

[plix (imported)]

Believe me, I am one of the first to say that government doesn't have any right to tell athletes or anyone else what they can and cannot put into their own bodies. If someone wants to use T or GH or whatever else, it should be a personal choice.

And I would love to supplment my T with some GH. While my levels may still be high at 23, they are not the levels of a 15 year-old, and I think the T would work better with some GH added in. But as I've said before, there is no way in heck I am going to get a doctor to prescribe me GH. And since I wouldn't have a clue where to start to find it elsewhere, I am pretty much out of luck.

I have also been a proponent of giving GH to transsexuals interested in a full transition, especially older ones. I think it would do wonders for the results they would see, as GH is one of the driving factors in either sex hormone changing our bodies. I think it should be a standard part of the hormone protocol for any interested TS.

[mrt (imported)]

Believe me, I am one of the first to say that government doesn't have any right to tell athletes or anyone else what they can and cannot put into their own bodies. If someone wants to use T or GH or whatever else, it should be a personal choice.

And I would love to supplment my T with some GH. While my levels may still be high at 23, they are not the levels of a 15 year-old, and I think the T would work better with some GH added in. But as I've said before, there is no way in heck I am going to get a doctor to prescribe me GH. And since I wouldn't have a clue where to start to find it elsewhere, I am pretty much out of luck.

I have also been a proponent of giving GH to transsexuals interested in a full transition, especially older ones. I think it would do wonders for the results they would see, as GH is one of the driving factors in either sex hormone changing our bodies. I think it should be a standard part of the hormone protocol for any interested TS.

Ok, but if your qualifying an athlete by personal performance and if I can use that Russian womens team as an example. Is it "fair" to pit women pumped up with gobs of injected testosterone against those without and call it "sporting" It seems to me that it becomes more like a Dr Frankenstein experiment then athletics. Whats next? Eugenic supermen? Seems to me that was tried along with using drugs to enhance soldiers abilities. No thanks...

Plis - All these record breaking performances that we are now hearing are influenced by this stuff are pointless in my opinion. I'm old enough to remember enjoying watching sports pre all this and enjoying very much seeing people compete. People btw that looked a lot more like real people you would meet.

I don't have the same feeling when I see guys that are impossibly buffed out because I suspect its a guy who took a short cut. Look, I'm not perfect and trust me I know there is no amount of steroids that are going to make me play ball like Barry Bonds on his worst day but I think its delusional to think he didn't use a lot of help to get from where he started and suddenly went to. And for the teams that played against him or tried for a job with his team and lost because they didn't use steroids? That sucks and its just not fair.

[gpb3aol (imported)]

I assume HG is human growth hormone.

Could you post a link to some acticles that support your opinion the HGH helps in transition.

Believe me, I am one of the first to say that government doesn't have any right to tell athletes or anyone else what they can and cannot put into their own bodies. If someone wants to use T or GH or whatever else, it should be a personal choice.

And I would love to supplment my T with some GH. While my levels may still be high at 23, they are not the levels of a 15 year-old, and I think the T would work better with some GH added in. But as I've said before, there is no way in heck I am going to get a doctor to prescribe me GH. And since I wouldn't have a clue where to start to find it elsewhere, I am pretty much out of luck.

I have also been a proponent of giving GH to transsexuals interested in a full transition, especially older ones. I think it would do wonders for the results they would see, as GH is one of the driving factors in either sex hormone changing our bodies. I think it should be a standard part of the hormone protocol for any interested TS.

[plix (imported)]

Nope, it's just an opinion As such, it is certainly subject to being taken or left.

With my love of speculation, I enjoy discussing opinions that cannot necessarily be proven. Sometimes it is fun to think about what might be, rather than always knowing what has to be

That being said, I did some research and cannot immediately find anything where TSs were given GH. My suspicion is that no such studies have ever been done.

But I did find something saying that IGF-1 levels (an important derivative of GH) increase in FtMs getting T, and decrease in MtFs getting E. So perhaps it is only MtFs we need worry about getting some GH to go along with their E.

Do you think it is a coincidence that GH levels and sex hormone levels reach their peak at the same time? I don't. GH is what makes our bodies grow and change. More of it means more growth and change, and therefore more results from sex hormones.

Why do you think younger TSs on average get better results from cross-sex hormones? Is it because they are "just younger" and that is "just the way it is?" I think not. I would rather credit it to higher GH levels in younger TSs. GH drops off significantly after age 25. Results from cross-sex hormones also drop off significantly after age 25. Coincidence? I think not.

Now, back to T use in sports and for other non-medical reasons. I never said it was OK for athletes to use T and gain an unfair advantage. No, my point was that it is not OK for government to tell them that they cannot use it. Huge difference.

As private organizations, professional sports organizations have every right to ban any substance they like, and give consequences to players who violate the ban. Don't like the rules? Don't play that sport. Otherwise, you follow them or deal with the consequences for breaking them.

The public is also free to shun them out of baseball or whatever other sport they play.

But government should not have the right to tell peopl

e what they can and cannot put into their own bodies.

That is what I am trying to say