Crime and Castration

[SplitDick (imported)]

BBoy, you said:

"I am 30 ...

and have never had sex. I haven't fantasized about raping someone either!

"

But you are also the archivist for a Eunuch message board. I don't think that you represent a statistical male "norm". Note that is not meant as a criticism at all -- I like you and respect your orientation and interests.

When talking about society (and controlling society through a legal system) you have to do some generalization. So I am generalizing about a major segment of the male population. Perhaps some of you here may not be involved in the "typical" male, macho world. However, I am still very plugged into that. I hang out with many guys whose sole goal in life is to get laid. We fight, we do crime, and we chase and coerce women. We're not alone -- there is a very large segment of the male population that is involved in this. If you don't believe me, just look at the proliferation of strip clubs, escort services, etc. in any big city. And of course porn on the net.

While there simply is little or no market for selling sex to women, there is a HUGE, HUGE market for selling sex to men. That CANNOT just be socialization at work -- there must be a strong physical drive at work. What makes men pay $1000/night for sex while risking being put in jail and risking getting AIDS or other diseases? Simple: physical urges based on testosterone.

I know that for some who had low libido all their life may not understand it. But those like me who have had a high libido all my life, and have immersed myself in the seedier side of city life, know very well the power of testosterone on the "average" young hetero male. It makes them override their otherwise reasonable thought process to take unreasonable risks and create unreasonable harm to others.

Lastly, I feel I am an expert on this because me and my friends have also used a lot of steroids. It is very obvious to us that we get roid rage (more agressive) and more horny whenever we have high levels of testosterone.

Why do so many people object to viewing humans as animals driven by physical drives? Once you start thinking that way, then violence is not so perplexing and society's ills are easy to understand.

I do not mean that every person born with a penis will be a sex maniac, but I do stand by my claim that the "average" guy goes through adolescence as sex maniac. The question then is what that period does to form the psyche of that person, and which ones will become sexual predators.

[Daniel (imported)]

What the above responses to this thread proves to me is that there is no real correct or final solution to the criminal problems enumerated above. There were suggestions, for example, ranging from the death penalty, castration, long term imprisonment, banishment, making life in prison unbearable, etc.

The mere fact that there are different forms of democratic governments, some with constitutions (legal states) such as the USA and France (republics), and others such as Britain (a monarchy) who see no need for a constitution, (yet each in their own way (in spite of many, from my point of view, trivial failings) succeed in what they are doing. So too the various legal systems also with varying methods, try to tackle the same problems without really having the right answers, ranging from the varying social justice systems of the Western countries to the Sharia system (shocking to Westerners) in the Middle East. To a large extent the legal system reflects the cultural consent of the majority in the country concerned.

Then also, in spite of an attempt by contributors to this thread to approach the subject objectively, almost all eventually let their personal feelings on how to treat certain criminality get the better of them. Which goes to show that we as contributors to this thread also don’t have the answers, discussions then being only academic, with no chance chance of infuencing the decisions of the legal authorities.

Adding spice to the discussion. Lets take RAPE as an example. Here in South Africa where I live we have over the past six months had a spate of rapes of babies, some as young as a few weeks old, by adult men. (The news media reporting thereon almost on a weekly basis of a new case). Some of the indiginous people have been recommended a cure for AIDS by their witch doctors, that it will go away if they rape a virgin, resulting in a number of HIV positive fathers raping their young daughters.

Our constitution says that everyone has a “right to life” (which does not apply to the legally aborted baby, as the mother has the right to choose her abortion). Ironically, invariably the protagonists of the abolition of the death penalty are also the protagonists of legal abortion. Hence the death penalty has been abolished, and in spite of the clamour by the majority of the people of this country for its re-introduction, the constitution precludes the government from being able to do so. So what happens now. The populace in pure frustration take the law into their own hands (happening quite often) and wreak their own vengeance. Only a month ago in Sebokeng, a rapist awaiting trial (why he was not in prison, I don’t know), was taken by a group of furious women in the community, held down, tied a length of wire around his genitals, and dragged him through the streets until his genitals parted from his body. When the paramedics arrived they were stoned in their attempt to rescue him. This man died as few hours later of his wounds in the local hospital.

What say you to this?

[Paolo]

This man died as few hours later of his wounds in the local hospital.

What say you to this?

I'd say that he should have considered this fate BEFORE he raped the woman. Then again, he was probably temporarily insane from high testosterone levels and lack of good consensual sex and burning to dominate someone ... right ... sure he was. Probably totally innocent, in fact.

Perhaps if he'd been DISCIPLINED better when he was a kid, but oh well ...

[Daniel (imported)]

Digressing from the main theme of this thread. Split Dick above mentions his personal “roid rage” in the use (abuse) of testosterone and androgens as a healthy sexual male. I too did so when I was young, from about the age of 25 (I am now 58) with the following consequenses:

1. By the time I was 43, my testicles shut down PERMANENTLY (ie. Produced only a miniscule amount of testosterone). I am now crucified to artificial testosterone to my regret.

2. I have normal erections, normal sex drive, but the sexuality is from my point of view dissapointing = because:

2:1 in order to achieve an orgasm, I must work hard at it, and then most times because of the effort, the result is weak and dissapointing. (Many times I just give up trying to achieve an orgasm, in spite of retaining my erection)

2:3 The ejaculate volume is very small and has little force out of the penis (dribbling out)

2:4 My doctor ascribes my enlarged prostrate (benign) to my former abuse in the use (abuse) of androgens in my younger years. As a result, to urinate has also become a tedious job.

My experience will not necessarily affect others abusing androgens as it did me,

but for those persons who want to dabble with hormones without a medical

practitioner’s guidance, BEWARE. You will in all probability regret it in later

life.

[A-1 (imported)]

I really cannot relate to people who rape.

I mean, after all, rape is one of the most selfish things that one human being can do to another human being.

Rapists have one motive and that is to serve themselves. I think that there about as many excuses for raping another as there are rapists. Each is unique in their own way and the one thing that stands out is the rapists utter lack of empathy for their victim.

We cannot cure the problem by castrating rapists. Neither can the problem be cured by rehabilitation. The only way to address the problem is to make sure that we instill in everyone either an empathy or even a respect for other fellow humans.

Until this is done rapes will continue. Both as a sexual outlet and as a crime or exerting power over another. Rapists who kill their victims are by far the worst ones. These people truly deserve execution.

A-1

[SplitDick (imported)]

Well there are two approaches society has to make to reduce or prevent rape and sex crime:

1) Teach our sons to have a healthy sexuality, one where frustration is a minimum so that views won't be warped. That includes teaching empathy (for women) etc. To acheive healthy sexuality, moderate masturbation should be encouraged, the child's sexual orientation needs to be understood and supported, and their fantasies must be guided toward adults.

2) Deal with those who have made it to adulthood with warped sexuality. I still maintain that for those who know they are primarily driven by sexual urges, that castration will provide immense relief which will set the basis for rehabilitation. For those whose psychology has been seriously warped and continues after their sex drive has diminished, I think rehabilitation is futile (how can you correct 30 years of warped development) and they should be locked up as long as possible.

In all cases, I think people should have sympathy for rapists and sex criminals. I have no idea why people hate them so much. I see them as poor troubled souls. I think very few of them really want to hurt others, but something in them takes over occasionally and makes them act in ways that do. The amount of hate people have for sex criminals just shows how little most people understand about the human condition.

[plezherus (imported)]

I knew a guy quite well. He was a juvenille delinquent, an occasional drug user and certifiable sociopath. I know he was a sociopath. I know he used to have nightmares that he killed someone. They would go on, sometimes there would be an altercation, and a shooting or stabbing. The dream would always end with the judge handing down a sentence of guilty with life or the death penalty. He would wake up in a sweat.

His friends were murders, rapists, crack cocaine addicts, theives and other assorted convicted criminals.

He was having a bad season and one day he just snapped. The police found him in a psychotic fit. After placing him in cuffs, the arresting officer held a ammonia salt up to his nose. Leaning against the back of the patrol car, he thought the officer was attempting to kill him. He was an athletic young man who worked in the trades. At anyrate, he quickly broke from the officer and running in shower shoes with hands behind the back made his way down the street. He ran down the middle of the street.

Anyway before long he found himself surrounded by emergency personell and police officers. A police officer and a firefighter held him down waiting for the ambulance. Well, before the unit could arrive the young fellow broke the hand cuffs and was rising off the ground. You should have seen the expression on the officers faces. Four or five more firefighters, standing nearby, came to the rescue off the two others in their moment of crisis. Feeling eventually came back to the thumbs after about a year and a half.

A trip to the hospital and a visit with the on-call mental heath worker was enough to send the chap on his way. The psychatrist walked in and asked if there were any wierd or strange thouhts. The response was "What is wierd?"

I guess the mental heath dude figured the kid was beyond help.

So he was released back onto the street to walk the twenty miles back home. He walked about sixteen miles, from midnight until dawn. All he had was less then ten dollars in his pocket. As the people strarted their mourning commutes and his legs felt like they could go no further he hailed a cab for the last three or four miles. He walked into his garage and over to his bed and went to sleep. He felt safe in his bed, not two weeks before gang bangers had tried to shoot him. They drove and leveled a gun. The kid was to fast and escaped, running to his garage and the bed.

The next day he was rounded up and taken to a lock down facility. He stayed for two weeks voluntarily and then another thirteen days. The hospital was a private facility much better than the county hospital he was droped at the night before. After release he was encouraged to take some antipsychotics. The pills sailed out into the street as he thought about how much he liked his brain.

After leaving the hospital he served in Desert Storm and left with an honorable discharge. He choose a education and profession that would allow him the time and oppurtunity to rehabilitate himself. The army paid his way. Today he is a successful businessman with thriving company. If you were to ask him how to solve the crime problem, he'd probably have to say better mothers, defineitly better mums.

[talula]

Hi Everyone,

I've read every post and there are some very good points made, but I'm afraid that there is no panacea to crime. What I can add are the thoughts I was given as a child.

Thought 1: Laws exist for the most part because they defend society as a whole.

My Definition: Laws exist for the most part because someone had an interest in making them. Laws that were created to protect the innocent are the finest laws we could have. Victimless crimes are ridiculous in my book and should have never been enacted. I have broken some of those laws. Get the handcuffs. Just helping to run the Archive is probably an offense somewhere.

Thought 2: The worst thing you could do is hurt another.

My Definition: Absolutely. There is no crime worse than hurting another be it mentally, physically, financially, consciously, unconsciously, willingly, or unwillingly. I have unconsciously mentally hurt people then to find out of my actions. My atonement will be hefty and I believe that is one of the reasons I was mentally ill. Couldn't live with myself. I have never raised a fist.

Thought 3: Dreaming of rape is ok. Doing it is not.

My Definition: That was my Dad’s saying and my belief was that even thinking of rape was a very bad thing because dreams often time lead to reality. Now older, I believe what he was trying tell me is that we are all sexual beings, desiring to have sex with someone, and undressing them in your mind is ok. To try and involuntarily force sex on someone reminds us of thought 2.

I know it isn’t much of an addition to this thread, but it was my input.

[frankie (imported)]

Talula says (edited, obviously):

"

Thought 3: Dreaming of rape is ok. Doing it is not.

"My Definition: That was my Dad’s saying and my belief was that even thinking of rape was a very bad thing because dreams often time lead to reality. Now older, I believe what he was trying tell me is that we are all sexual beings, desiring to have sex with someone, and undressing them in your mind is ok. To try and involuntarily force sex on someone reminds us of thought 2.

"Thought 2: The worst thing you could do is hurt another.

"

Nicely put. I agree completely. The original point that I tried to make above is that the bottom line is personal responsibility.

We are sexual beings. Yes. Animals sometimes. Too true.

We are also humans. Being human means making decisions about what we will and will not do. If we are incapable of subverting our bestiality to our humanity, we should at least be responsible enough to seek help from someone so that we can learn to do so before someone gets hurt.

To say "fuck it" and do whatever you want at the expense of everyone is to choose self over society, gratification over morality. If you want to behave in this manner, okay, but stay out of my neighborhood and away from the people I love. Hence my banishment argument.

Criminals who choose this path and refuse to take responsibility to choose to learn a better way cannot be rehabilitated or convinced because they have chosen to live the way that they do.

Criminal rehabilitation is impossible unless the guilty party sincerely desires a better way, punishment is cruel and ineffective, and mutilation or murder inexcusable. If rape is about sex, as has been argued here, we have to protect ourselves from people who would destroy safety and order because they "NEED" to bust a nut RIGHT NOW in that bitch right there wether she likes it or not. We need to remove these people from our neighborhoods so we can safely live our lives.

The idea that our psychology happens to us; we become warped without our permission is laughable or sad depending on my mood. It leads directly to the idea that we're all just innocent victims who blindly react to to our pain and when horrible crimes are committed, we should just accept them as part of life with the beasts. It's nobody's fault because it's everyone's fault. No way. If I rape someone, it's MY FAULT!!! JUST ME.

The ambiguity of who the victims are is troubling and complex considered broadly. Specifically, though, in a given case of rape, the rapist is the perpetrator no matter how mean or permissive his mommy was. We ALWAYS give our permission to our actions or we wouldn't do them. Simple as that. Our failure to heal and to seek the help needed in doing so; our DECISION to spread pain and hatred instead of healing ourselves of it, is our own, no-one else's.

Sorry to put heat on this one. I'd rather not yell, but I got all excited. It's really not my fault. My dad yelled at me when I was a kid. Blame him if you don't like what I have to say.

Frankie

[SplitDick (imported)]

Frankie said:

"

The idea that our psychology happens to us; we become warped without our permission is laughable or sad depending on my mood. It leads directly to the idea that we're all just innocent victims who blindly react to to our pain and when horrible crimes are committed, we should just accept them as part of life with the beasts. It's nobody's fault because it's everyone's fault. No way. If I rape someone, it's MY FAULT!!! JUST ME.

"

Frankie, I am all for the idea of personal responsibility. However, I don't think people really understand the reality of physical addition and biochemistry in decision making. If you've ever taken an anti-depressant (Prozac or Celexa) you'd agree that after only a week of taking those pills that your decisions change drastically. Chemistry can drastically change thinking!

High libido is an amazingly difficult biochemical force to control. Imagine if you gave a coke addict a "magic" pocket which was always full of drugs. Do you really think that person could quit the drug with an unending supply always within reach? They might be able to exert their will for a couple days, but then it would fail and they would crash again into addiction. This is EXACTLY what it is like having a high libido. Every time I even think of women I get a huge RUSH through my body. I feel it. It is a wave of feeling. It is physical. How can I quit, if my "bad" thoughts are so powerfully reinforced? I have an unending supply of physical high ....

So don't be too quick to talk about free will and personal responsibility -- it is a nice ideal but you'll be constantly disappointed by reality. There are very few people in the world that exert free will all the time. Science actually says there is no free will at all -- that we are just a collection of molecules obeying immutable physical laws. I believe there can be free will, but I think we also cannot deny that we are biochemical.

You know that people's thinking can be changed by alcohol. Why don't you believe it can be changed by testosterone? If thinking can be changed by chemical stimulus, why do you think people can have full control over their thinking?

I think it is nice to say that everyone should try to have personal responsibility. But we also need to recognise that it takes a supreme and constant effort that is more difficult for some. And some will fail. Society must be able to accept those people.