Backing down on the testosterone

[mrt (imported)]

Thank you all for your responses. Not that it's good, but it's good to know there are others going through what I'm going through. They say that about 1-2 guys in 30,000 have this problem. Are we lucky or what?

One question my wife was wondering about is that if I start taking Estrogen, is it possible to get a functional erection or is it strap-on time? I hear about some people on Estrogen masturbating to orgasm right up to the day of SRS. Does this involve an erection or just an orgasm?

From what I "think" I understand you will retain sexual drive but it may manifest itself "different" if you think female sexual drive vrs male. Take notes and report back some of us are just curious "Natural" erections will decrease and then cease from everything I've seen but there are things you can do about that. How fast depends on how aggresive you are in Estrogen replacement. Anyway once that happens a V.E.D. like the Rejoyn or Osbon http://www.rejoyn.com would probably make a dead man erect. And if your going to go forward with SRS regular use will maintain the penile tissue (Avoiding shrinkage) if what I've seen is correct. To make it work you may need to de-fur your pubic area to make it work well Also you can try a Rejoyn Penile "splint" that props up a flacid penis. Then there are drugs like Caverject (Injectable) or Muse (Uretheral insertable) that might work. Not sure how oral meds like Viagra would work but? Why not? Worth a try.

Strapon sex is still an option and a lot of men with serious erection issues have tried it, like it and their wives probably even more so. One nice thing is that it can be liberating to not be "tied" to drugs, injections etc. If your serious about that don't waste money on a "junk" one or a plastic dildo.

If your wife is open to it, take some time to R&D Psudocourse and be sure she understands that you do not need to be erect to have an orgasm. So oral sex, mutual masturbation etc all still work and can be quite amazing...

I think its great that she is talking to you about the future this way. Its probably going to be difficult or at least complicated but she sounds like she is in there for you and thats huge.

Good luck and don't get bummed out about impotence issues... Its just a minor glitch that you can work around.

[mrt (imported)]

Mr. T, I'd be interested in seeing that program that helps with DP dosage/frequency. If you dig it up -- would you please either post it or post a link to it or send me a PM about it?

Thanks.

*note this is the link. Its FAR from perfect. The model it produces is not accurate in how real injections peak after the day you inject for example and unfortunatly it doesn't read out in numbers that are like the labs we do. However.... All that aside if you poke in 100mg every other week you will see why I was crawling into my doctors office on my knees begging for more. If you plug in 200mg every other week you see why the first days after injection you will be slapping Barry Bonds and Jose Conseko in the face while you wrestle Hulk Hogan. 100mg a week starts to look not to awful and if you can suck it up for a month or two it sort of looks like it evens out a bit. A tad more then 100mg weekly looks like the best numbers

http://www.steroidsource.net/calculator.htm

If I get the time I'll try to make a spread sheet that does this and works more like the real world and perhapes outputs lab type numbers... But don't hold your breath waiting...

[mrt (imported)]

I found this on I fixed some typos and spelling errors but you can go to the source if you join the forum. *NO, I'm not suggesting anyone use Internet Hormones... Bad idea!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TsDoItYou ... sage/33070

Anyhow, I found this when I was looking for information on Orchiectomy some years ago. The author does not describe any date for erections to cease but some other posters talk about this happening a month or two after switching from Testosterone to Estrogen.

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It depends much on your own physiology and dedication, so as the

EPA says "Your mileage may vary"

Items experienced by me in sequence but not by date:

Intense elation on starting Estrogen.

Initial tenderness of the nipple area.

Morning Involuntary erections cease.

Male genital shrinkage and initial breast growth begin.

Genital shrinkage and breast growth accelerate.

Spouse begins to notice significant changes.

Spouse begins to feel she is failure, and what did she did wrong.

You start to loose sperm count.

Your Ejaculate may become clear.

You begin to think Lesbianism might be a great relationship option.

Spouse may not and if you didn't discuss things... Look out!!!!

Metabolism feminizes.

Voluntary Erections require more and more foreplay, and stimulation to happen.

You eventually cease to ejaculate.

You experience a possibly permanent mental alteration to feminine.

You cry much easier.

You become emotionally involved easier.

You begin to be more responsive to nipple stimulation.

You begin to last longer and a "stiffie" is jello like at best.

You start to fantasize about a male partner occasionally.

You begin to like "chick flicks."

You Begin to check out guys and think of how they can pleasure

you.

You begin to confide in your hairdresser.

You answer male when asked your sex, female if asked your gender.

Your skin begins to soften substantially You notice that you really have a Butt now.

Hair growth thins out and slows (shaving legs only one a week is nice)

Bra's become a necessity and not a fetish Wardrobe adaptation.

Is a must to present a male mode.

Things from the ladies department fit better.

Clingy tops show all and you want to flaunt it You take a Vegas

junket, spend it in Skirts/dresses, fem tops & heels.

Castration once feared as a threat to manhood no longer seems frightening it actually seems attractive, possibly a goal as they get in the way.

The thought of changing an outie to an innie (SRS) begins to have more and more appeal.

It finally dawns on you - You have really become a woman (mentally

and in many ways permanently physically.)

So unless you are prepared to go the whole 9 yards, don't dabble.

Estrogen is addictive and once stated the magic really works.

You will never be the man you started out as again.

Oh and by the way if you don't have kids now and want to have any,

the only way you can bank on of doing this is by making a sperm deposit in advance.

Many who wish to do so later find out that physical castration has

become just a way to make panties fit better as the hormones have already done it chemically.

Estrofem 2 mg 2x a day for three years produced the above.

[mrt (imported)]

When I rejoined that Forum I got this in my Inbox. The more Official Changes you can expect with some dates.

What effect does female hormone therapy have on a male, and how soon?

The longer after puberty hormone therapy is started, the less effective it is--but not a linear scale, e.g., results are considerably more dramatic in an 18 year old than a 28 year old, but results are not on the average dramatically different between a 38 year old and a 48 year old.

The following effects have been observed in varying degrees--anywhere from little to moderate--with extended treatment. With effective and continuous dosages, most of the changes that a particular body is genetically prone to start within 2 to 4 months, start becoming irreversible within 6 to 12 months, start leveling off somewhat within 2 years, and be mostly done within 5 years. The leveling generally takes longer if the testes are not removed. These timelines are generalizations based on what many people have reported, but do not necessarily mean that everyone will find development (or reversibility) to be within these limits. High levels of estrogen will cause faster development up to a point, but not better results in the long term than moderate levels of estrogen.

Fertility decreases. Sperm count drops rapidly. Sometimes it returns to almost normal if hormonal treatment is discontinued within the first couple of months, but permanent sterility can occur in as little as six months. However, this should not be counted on for birth control, because a miniscule sperm count might remain until the testes are surgically removed. Estrogens, progesterone, progestins, and gonadal androgen production inhibitors are the chemicals responsible for lowering fertility. It appears to the author that the other types of anti-androgens do not necessarily effect fertility--but one would be wise to take frequent fertility tests if one chooses to employ only the other types of anti-androgens with the intent of maintaining fertility.

Male sex drive decreases. Directly stimulated erections can become infrequent and difficult to maintain. Spontaneous erections usually stop. Semen secretion decreases, usually resulting in less intense ejeculatory orgasms (however, the ability to achieve a satisfying orgasm--even with little or no semen--is determined more by psychological factors and frequent practice than anything else). The testes and prostate atrophy. The penile skin also shrinks if erections are not regularly encouraged.

Breast size increases. Typical growth is one to two cup sizes below closely related females (mother, sisters). The growth is not always symmetrical--neither is it for females. Sometimes the areoles and nipples swell, but generally not significantly, unless the body is less than a decade past puberty.

Fat is redistributed. The face becomes more typically female in shape. Fat tends to migrate away from the waist and toward the hips and buttocks.

Body hair growth (not including head, face, or pubic area) generally slows, becomes less dense, and may lighten in color.

Blotches (cloasma) appear on the skin of some people during hormone therapy. This is the same effect as the "mask of pregnancy" and probably related to other dermal changes as noted below.

Many people also report the following effects, but they are not verified in any medical literature that the author has read:

Outer skin layer becomes thinner, lending a finer translucent appearance and increased susceptibility to scratching and bruising. Tactile sensation becomes more intense.

Oil and sweat glands become less active, resulting in dryer skin, scalp, and hair. Sometimes, tear glands also become less active, resulting in dryer eyes, which can cause some discomfort for those who wear contact lenses. Dermal gland activity trends can generalized with the formula (A+P)/E where A = androgens, P = progesterone and progestins, and E = estrogens. Synthetic estrogens seem to be especially likely to reduce activity.

Scalp hair becomes thicker, and male pattern baldness generally stops advancing. In some cases, a fine fuzz may grow back along the line of where scalp hair was recently lost--but only from the living follicles, not dead ones.

Fingernails become thinner and more brittle.

Body odors (skin and urine) change. They become less "tangy" or "metallic" and more "sweet" or "musky".

If exercise is not increased, some muscle tone is lost.

Metabolism decreases. Given a caloric intake and exercise regimen consistent with pre-hormonal treatment, one tends to gain weight, lose energy, need more sleep, and become cold more easily.

Some middle-aged and older transsexuals who start or resume hormone therapy report improved memory and overall mental faculty.

Internal emotions are amplified, becoming more apparent, distinguishable, and influential. Some people report reduced anxiety and increased sense of well-being. This could be a placebo effect. Changing the hormone therapy (adjusting dosages up or down in the regimen) sometimes causes a week or two of depression and otherwise unexplainable emotional angst.

"Female" sex drive and enjoyment increase. This observation is obviously completely subjective since males have no way to directly compare the experience. Non-ejeculatory orgasms become more likely for those with the predisposition to have them, if for no other reason than the fact that ejeculatory orgasms are difficult or impossible to achieve, and the need for sexual release forces a rewiring of perceptions and responses.

It has been occasionally reported that sensitivity to air-born allergens decreases.

[plix (imported)]

Thank you all for your responses. Not that it's good, but it's good to know there are others going through what I'm going through. They say that about 1-2 guys in 30,000 have this problem. Are we lucky or what?

One question my wife was wondering about is that if I start taking Estrogen, is it possible to get a functional erection or is it strap-on time? I hear about some people on Estrogen masturbating to orgasm right up to the day of SRS. Does this involve an erection or just an orgasm?

Keep in mind that everyone is different and has completely completely different responses to E, but for most people erections will come progessively difficult to get. For me that was the case. At first erections without direct stimulation stopped, and over time erections with direct stimulation required a lot more effort to get and maintain.

For me oral ED meds do not work without T (never tried them with T so don't know about that). Never tried any other form of ED med, although it is likely that the other forms would work a lot better.

The ones who do it up until SRS are doing this to maintain penile tissue, and also some have suggested that having regular orgasms is necessary for the body to "remember" how to orgasm and increase the chances of being orgasmic post-op - but this has not been proven one way or the other - just theories.

Orgasms without erections are definitely possible according to what a lot of people have said, but it isn't really clear what the requirements are to have them or whether everyone can have them or not. I myself have never had one. It is likely that they are going to be much different from the standard male orgasm if you do get them - probably a lot less intense.

Keep in mind that even if you can get erections, you may find them extremely boring to get and requiring way more effort than they are worth - "as fun as doing taxes" as has been stated on the site in the past. E lowers the male sex drive quite a lot, and not all get an accompanying boost in female sex drive. Even if you do a develop a female sex drive, it will not be focused on getting enjoyment from the same things you did with your male sex drive

[mrt (imported)]

Orgasms without erections are definitely possible according to what a lot of people have said, but it isn't really clear what the requirements are to have them or whether everyone can have them or not. I myself have never had one. It is likely that they are going to be much different from the standard male orgasm if you do get them - probably a lot less intense.

Keep in mind that even if you can get erections, you may find them extremely boring to get and requiring way more effort than they are worth - "as fun as doing taxes" as has been stated on the site in the past. E lowers the male sex drive quite a lot, and not all get an accompanying boost in female sex drive. Even if you do a develop a female sex drive, it will not be focused on getting enjoyment from the same things you did with your male sex drive

I clearly am an obsessive researcher. From the TS groups that I've looked into the idea of loosing all sex drive is not common in m2f transexuals. It does happen and some of the women report they suppliment micro doses of Testosterone to get a normal sex drive going. The normal balance for natal women of E/T is pretty much what you get when you castrate a male and start them on estrogen because male Adrenal glands seem to be capable of producing female levels of Testosterone. I agree that female sexual drive is not the same. Not sure its as simple as it not being as intense.

Sexual climax without erections is one thing I can report on. When my hormones were in the tank I had my first "flacid" orgasms and they do feel good. I admit they didn't seem to be as HUGE as my fully fueled up by Testosterone ones. I think they seemed "nice" - now they feel like " W O W " and oh my God etc... But of course I was not fueled by Estrogen either. The reports I've read of post op m2f transexuals hints that they are able to enjoy multiple orgasms and many seem to think that sex is much better as a female because of this. However its reported to be "different" estrogen is antiandrogenic and diminishes or diffuses the orgasm as subjectively experienced in the male-to-female transsexual.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

Sexual climax without erections is one thing I can report on. When my hormones were in the tank I had my first "flacid" orgasms and they do feel good. I admit they didn't seem to be as HUGE as my fully fueled up by Testosterone ones. I think they seemed "nice" - now they feel like " W O W " and oh my God etc... But of course I was not fueled by Estrogen either. The reports I've read of post op m2f transexuals hints that they are able to enjoy multiple orgasms and many seem to think that sex is much better as a female because of this.

I remember that you've mentined elsewhere that you have used some progesterone along with male hormones. Do you take it now, and how did progesterone affect your sex drive?

[mrt (imported)]

I remember that you've mentined elsewhere that you have used some progesterone along with male hormones. Do you take it now, and how did progesterone affect your sex drive?

I did take it but my GP made a bit of a fuss because I'm normally quite good about going over everything with her and with this I just started using it.

She had me stop and did labs later to see where I was and my levels were fine. Then she had me bring in the stuff I had and she said that it was such a low dose that it hardly had a chance to do anything regardless.

Post surgery I'm once again wondering if I need it in my "mix."

Its probably all 'mental' but I thought I slept better with Progesterone weak junk or not.

On a realted note I was told it was ok to take 50mg of DHEA (A rather large dose by most peoples estimates) my GP was monitoring this and it did bring my DHEA from below normal to good middle of the range levels. Unfortunately my Estrodiol went through the roof and after some R&D and a long long visit with my GP we decided to lay off the DHEA for now. Since then I've read a couple of interesting articles that suggest that "oral" DHEA will drive up Estrogens in men and Testosterone in women. The same article suggests that transdermal DHEA does not spike the "wrong" kind of hormones. I've been looking at DHEA on the web. What kinds you can get OTC and plan to give it a shot later. One thing that DHEA does for me is allow me to dream (humm... Not a correct statement. Everyone dreams - this lets me remember my dreams) And from many things I've read having healthy DHEA levels is a pretty sure plus to my health. Although the web can be a tough place to get solid information. What I've been doing is collecting stuff to go over with when I see my GP. I think the poor women must really dread my visits...

[kristoff]

Although the web can be a tough place to get solid information. What I've been doing is collecting stuff to go over with when I see my GP. I think the poor women must really dread my visits...

OTOH, it probably forces her to keep thoroughly up-to-date - which would make her an excellent resource.

[mrt (imported)]

OTOH, it probably forces her to keep thoroughly up-to-date - which would make her an excellent resource.

You know what... Your exactly right! A couple of times I've brought in things and now she asks me to leave a copy. I've even given her books for Christmas. I asked to make sure this was "insulting" and she assured me it was not. I can't imagine doing that with some of my ego maniac male doctors however. I would probably have a golf club shoved up my ass...