Death by Cutter

[Beau Geste (imported)]

I was just looking at some of the articles in the news stories forum, about various mayhem done to the privates of assorted individuals. As far as I can tell, all the victims, whether victims of their own actions or somebody else's, appear to have survived--though usually not as entire as they were to begin with.

Anyway, this got me thinking about whether or not I had ever read or heard of somebody expiring as a result of amateur surgery by a "cutter." Don't think I have. I've seen a number of reports of urgent trips to the emergency room, and, of course, uncontrolled hemorrhage is a danger in any surgery. But, though I admittedly don't search these things out, and probably wouldn't see notice of it except on this website, it seems striking that I haven't seen any reports of people dying after amateur orchiectomies. In fact, after reading several articles and looking through a couple of books about hijras in South Asia, my impression is, that it's rare for someone to die after being worked over by a Dai Ma, which I think is the name for individuals who do the operation in which the external male genitals are excised. As far as I know, the persons who do the surgery on hijras in India have no medical training, and are therefore essentially the same in that regard as cutters in North America. Of course, the surgery performed on hijras is very much more invasive than a simple orchiectomy.

I'm not suggesting that amateur orchiectomies are safe. Perhaps the operation is sufficiently minor, in terms of its physical effects, that deaths are rare even when amateurs are doing the operation and botching things up. Or, maybe, the surgeries are done by people who are ready to slap on a compress and get to the nearest emergency room on a moment's notice. Obviously, especially considering the possible complications, including incontinence and sepsis, nobody in his right mind would consent to surgery by a cutter.

As far as that goes, the amount of amateur surgery which goes on, is quite surprising. I remember the first time I accessed BME, and looking goggle-eyed at the split tongues, lopped-off digits, and various sexual alterations on the site--all the result of surgeries done, I presume, by people who aren't licensed medical professionals. Besides that, people go to some location in Arizona to gets their skulls trepanned--I've been told that's also done by amateurs. Actually, if you check the record, practically all surgery done prior to the later eighteenth century, was done by barbers rather than by physicians. The red on a barber's pole is said to represent blood, for that reason. And, as far as I can tell from what I've read about him, Felix Spector, who was an osteopath rather than a urologist, didn't actually have much training before he started doing orchiectomies. I wonder if he had any experience assisting with human orchiectomies before he started doing them himself, or just did a few dogs and then figured he knew enough to go on to humans. But, then, according to what I've read, a lot of surgical assistants who are involved in complicated operations, don't have any medical degrees. If I were going to have surgery, though, I think I'd check and make sure everybody who was in on the operation, had at least a nursing degree and a few years of experience.

Anyway, does anybody know of someone actually dying as a result of a bad amateur orchiectomy?

[padawna (imported)]

The only case I've seen was in Caligula... yeah, ok, so the poor soldiers gutt was cut wide open after his balls were cut off and feed to the dogs. What a waste of a nice ...

Considering the number of infections, and deaths, due to body piercing, there must have been some situations where one had to go to ER because of a misguided cutter. Most of us would have someone experienced do the procedure, but there are many daring types out there. BME has many photos of people doing self castrations, mods and everything else. I've pierced my own ears, my scrotum (couldnt do the pa myself...) but to cut the sack open... and to stitch it back closed afterwards... wow. If I actually knew how to do the stitching, and knew I was cutting it right, I think I could do it. But then again I did have a woody while piercing my sack, guess its a whole pain vs pleasure thing.

[kristoff]

There have been a number of deaths over years that have been heard of. The most prominent recently that comes to mind is the one in Pennsylvania about 4-5 years ago. Wife was clipping husband who was apparently TG. She fucked up, he bled to death. She was convicted I believe of manslaughter. It was in some trailer park or something - I remember they lived in a trailer - many details are not clear in my addled brain...

That aside, I very nearly died at the hand of Felix Spector - the one who once did many orchies for this community. Unfortunately, he worked past the time he should have stopped. He missed something, and I very nearly bled to death internally. When emergency picked me up I was in severe shock, BP was 69 over something like 27 (I wasn't coherent enough to recall lots). Had I not been attended when I was, I would be dead, and you would be short one nasty nun.

These two, I suspect, are just more obvious cases.... I suspect there are many more we just don't hear about, whether involving severe injury or death...

[Timmi07 (imported)]

That aside, I very nearly died at the hand of Felix Spector - the one who once did many orchies for this community. Unfortunately, he worked past the time he should have stopped. He missed something, and I very nearly bled to death internally.

I had bleeding, also. When I called Dr. Spector the next day from my hotel room, he chided me for panicking. Fortunately, the bleeding was not as bad as yours. Eventually, I had to go to an emergency room, where the (sympathetic, thank God) ER physician prescribed Aveeno baths to speed the healing.

By the way, whatever happened to Jeff, Dr. Spector's loyal assistant? Is he a denizen of this site? He seemed like a nice guy, but he brushed off any and all concerns about Dr. Spector's competence.

timmi

[kristoff]

I had bleeding, also. When I called Dr. Spector the next day from my hotel room, he chided me for panicking. Fortunately, the bleeding was not as bad as yours. Eventually, I had to go to an emergency room, where the (sympathetic, thank God) ER physician prescribed Aveeno baths to speed the healing.

By the way, whatever happened to Jeff, Dr. Spector's loyal assistant? Is he a denizen of this site? He seemed like a nice guy, but he brushed off any and all concerns about Dr. Spector's competence.

timmi

From what little I heard, he moved back to the family "estate" in Ohio. Apparently Spector moved there with him, at least for a while, after he lost his license (thank you Brian, my attorney, and several others). After that, I do not know.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

By the way, whatever happened to Jeff, Dr. Spector's loyal assistant? Is he a denizen of this site? He seemed like a nice guy, but he brushed off any and all concerns about Dr. Spector's competence.

timmi

I had a brief email exchange with him (as well as Spector) about a year ago, and both seemed to be doing fine and in good spirits. Specifically, I've asked whatever happened to Jeff's Yahoo pages ( http://www.geocities.com/tutnkmn/eunuch.html ), and he told me that most of them were deactivated by Yahoo for lack of activity, that he was very busy at work but looked forward to rebuilding the pages as soon as he had more time. He has never registered at this site, as far as I am concerned.

Recently, Spector's condition got much worse and he was transferred to a nursing home, according to a recent update at his website.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

I am reminded while reading all the above histories and news items, that every day, many people die in hospitals around the country after surgical procedures.

It's a huge roll of the dice, just going to a licensed, younger physician or cardiologist, checking into a hospital and submitting to a "routine" procedure in the hospital O.R. with a million dollars worth of equipment and a full staff in attendance.

If you are able to walk out of a modern American hospital after a surgical procedure of any sort, you really should immediately thank God.

Reminds me of a recent video on Youtube.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPI7zdGdqo4

[JesusA (imported)]

There is no such thing as "minor" surgery. Anything can turn life-threatening. One of my students is currently in the hospital (actually well into her second month in the hospital) as a result of complications of "routine" surgery. She's lucky to be alive.

Back to the original question, though. I'm currently on the road and don't have access to my library, but I know that there have been several reports of deaths from self-castration. I'll try to remember to look up some of them to post once I get home.

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

I have heard of 4 or 5 deaths due to castrations over the years. Suprisingly few considering what I believe is probably the number of attempts. In my case I went to the ER with moderate bleeding which was solved readily. At the hospital I acquired a life threatening drug resistant infection that I'm still fighting. --FLO--

[Eunuchist (imported)]

After reading all of the replies so far (and the excellent introductory post by Beau_Geste), I am inclined to assume that first and foremost, by far the greatest danger from cutters/self-surgery are complications, whith the actual immideate lethality rate being, by all accounts, extremely low. I suppose this is due to the fact that most of these men are relatively young and healthy, resilient indivduals determined to proceed with the surgery and survive at all costs.

Interestingly, I've also read in an article about suicide that, if we look at the survival rates of suicide attempts, it becomes clear that it may not be as "easy" to kill a healthy humanbeing as some may think, after all. It is actually amazing to read about what sort of poisoning, maltreatment and injury (MUCH worse than anything that could ever be done to the groin area) some of these people managed to survive (though, obviously, many of them had to deal with severe handicap for the rest of their lives).

OTOH, we do also hear about people dying from "routine minor surgeries" in the hospital, etc, so I guess that, when all comes to all, it is very much an individual/circumstantial thing, apparently.