This TRT Thing

[plix (imported)]

So I am trying to figure out this TRT thing. I've done T on and off over the last year, and I have now been on for the longest ever at 5 months.

Unfortunately I have noticed little to no improvement. Basically it doesn't seem to be working at all. What it has done for me is given me some body/facial hair, and perhaps some other slight bodily changes, except for fat loss - haven't lost a pound since starting T.

What it has not done for me is increased my energy, imrpoved my mood, or given me any libido. I do get noctural erections and get them with direct stimulation, but without they are rare. Even when I do get them through whatever means, there is zero sensation. As far as libido goes, it is zero.

I started out with the patches. The first time I actually did notice something of an improvement, but the patches were too inconvienient. Was off for a while then did shots at 50 mg/week. Those did nothing for me. Went off again.

Went back on about 5 months ago at 100 mg/week. Nothing again. Increased to 200/week (usually considered too high but approved by doctor). Nipples became very sore and swollen. Started an AI (aromatase inhibitor). That made the lack of libido/function worse. Got off the AI and went back to 100/week. Did that for several months with no improvement.

Just last week I started the gel. Testim 5g daily. It smells and it is not supposed to bring up the T levels as much as Androgel, but I did get a free 30-day supply of it.

One week on it and no difference. Could take longer, but gels are supposed to kick in faster. Not sure what to do now. Nothing seems to be working for me. The 10g dose would be nice but not affordable. 5g is not really affordable either, but if it made a difference we would try to struggle to afford it.

Applied for insurance that could cover all of this, or at least a good portion of it. Had to be honest about condition and medication. Not sure if I will be approved. They can decline me for pre existings since it is an individual plan. Even if I am approved insurance will also be expensive, probably more so for me if they will actually approve me.

If no insurance then I will have to continue going to this free clinic where the doctor seems to have no idea what he is doing. Has never once tested my hormone levels, probably because he isn't allowed to due to the costs of those tests. Wants me to go up to 400/week of T, which I think is ridiculously high. Believes that me finding the problems worse on 200 proves that they are "psychological." Doesn't seem to understand the principles of T to E conversion, which is very likely to occur on such a high dose.

I do believe that E conversion is at least a good part of the problem because of my very high bodyfat level for a man. My overall weight is 150, but my BF is in the 20s. Plenty of aromatase to go around. From what I've learned high E levels in a man inhibit libido and erectile function. I did do the AI, but I may have sent the levels too low, which apparently is just as bad. But then again, apparently if you get nocturnal erections then your E level is fine. So maybe not. What I need is a doctor who knows what the hell he is doing so I can figure out the problem and what needs to be done about it. But the usual financial limitations do apply.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I know that TRT is not the same as real T, but I expected to at least have some degree of libido return.

[ramses (imported)]

For help with medications if you can't afford them, try www.ppa.org.

You really need a doctor to run a full blood panel because you could also suffer from hypothyroidism which is easily treated. Your E level could also be to low since i'm sure you know, men need it to too to function properly. You can sve quite a bit of money if you call a doctor and explain that you don't currently have insurance and ask if they can give you a cash discount. My doctor only charged me $85 last time i was between insurance coverage. They can also cut you a big break on blood tests. They actually make a nice chunk of money when all they do is send it to local lab. They can work with you if you ask around. Good luck Plix

[Batman (imported)]

So I am trying to figure out this TRT thing. I've done T on and off over the last year, and I have now been on for the longest ever at 5 months.

Unfortunately I have noticed little to no improvement. Basically it doesn't seem to be working at all. What it has done for me is given me some body/facial hair, and perhaps some other slight bodily changes, except for fat loss - haven't lost a pound since starting T.

What it has not done for me is increased my energy, imrpoved my mood, or given me any libido. I do get noctural erections and get them with direct stimulation, but without they are rare. Even when I do get them through whatever means, there is zero sensation. As far as libido goes, it is zero.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I know that TRT is not the same as real T, but I expected to at least have some degree of libido return.

I HIGHLY reccomend posting joining and posting your message to the following yahoo group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/

FULL of great people and very knowledgeable about T replacement.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

Plix,

On the basis of the above, I would strongly suggest that you seriously reconsider what you are doing to yourself. What is the point? Why bother? Pay even more for something that's completely useless, and may prove to be harmful to your health, especially in the long run?

I remember you once claimed that you was comfortable with no HRT, and intended to remain that way. I have to wonder what could possibly have changed your attitute so drastically, in spite of the above. It does not seem that you are being true to yourself here.

At least that's the way I see it.

[Hairless (imported)]

Hi Plix, I think your doctor has no idea what he is doing. What type of testosterone is he injecting. You should only be injecting Depo-testosterone and not as often as you are getting it. Here is a site you should check out. They talk about T replacement for eunuchs. http://www.pblifex.com/index.php/pg/tes ... e_benefits

According to these guys, your doctor is not doing things correctly. I'm 55 and on 300mg. Depo-testosterone every 3 weeks. I have nightly erections through out the 3 week period of time and don't get any highs or lows some talk about at different levels. If anything I'm a lot better than I was before being castrated and that includes sexual performance also. I know that we are all different though. Weren't you on estrogen for a while? Could that have messed up your system to where your not very receptive to testosterone? There is also the possibility that you are one of the small percentage that TRT doesn't work for. My surgeon warned me that it was a possibility it wouldn't work for me. If none of this helps, you might want to save your pennies and see an endocrinologist. As ramses says, tell them you are a cash patient. You should be given a huge discount, especially if your a likable guy.

Good luck and keep us posted.

BTW, I see you live in California, me too. I'm in the south part, about 30 mi. from MacTheWolf.

[kristoff]

Hi Plix, I think your doctor has no idea what he is doing. What type of testosterone is he injecting. You should only be injecting Depo-testosterone and not as often as you are getting it. Here is a site you should check out. They talk about T replacement for eunuchs. http://www.pblifex.com/index.php/pg/tes ... e_benefits

According to these guys, your doctor is not doing things correctly. I'm 55 and on 300mg. Depo-testosterone every 3 weeks. I have nightly erections through out the 3 week period of time and don't get any highs or lows some talk about at different levels. If anything I'm a lot better than I was before being castrated and that includes sexual performance also. I know that we are all different though. Weren't you on estrogen for a while? Could that have messed up your system to where your not very receptive to testosterone? There is also the possibility that you are one of the small percentage that TRT doesn't work for. My surgeon warned me that it was a possibility it wouldn't work for me. If none of this helps, you might want to save your pennies and see an endocrinologist. As ramses says, tell them you are a cash patient. You should be given a huge discount, especially if your a likable guy.

Good luck and keep us posted.

BTW, I see you live in California, me too. I'm in the south part, about 30 mi. from MacTheWolf.

At a minimum, injections need to be on 2 week cycles for most people, otherwise there is a crash and soar cycling the often takes place. NOT FUN.

When I was on injections IM, depot-T was used, 2cc every other week. It maintained me fairly level at about 350 ng/dl. As I continued using T, I switched to Androgel. Over time it became less and less effective. From what I understand from my doctor, HRT does tend to loose its effectiveness in terms of libido over time. Spontaneous erection will decline significantly. There must be significant mental/emotional stimulation for best results, not just manual function.

[Hairless (imported)]

At a minimum, injections need to be on 2 week cycles for most people, otherwise there is a crash and soar cycling the often takes place. NOT FUN.

When I was on injections IM, depot-T was used, 2cc every other week. It maintained me fairly level at about 350 ng/dl. As I continued using T, I switched to Androgel. Over time it became less and less effective. From what I understand from my doctor, HRT does tend to loose its effectiveness in terms of libido over time. Spontaneous erection will decline significantly. There must be significant mental/emotional stimulation for best results, not just manual function.

I guess I'm special.

Kristoff, did you check out the link I posted? I have read that same advice at others also. The bottom line is, he needs to see a doc that knows this stuff.

[mrt (imported)]

Hi Plix:

I can't really say that Androgel (or the others) are not the same as "real" T because mine has probably been screwed up since I was 17. But I honestly wish you would stop saying that. For me (at least) getting a healthy level has made my life so much better I can't believe it. I think when you keep repeating its not "the same" it discourages some people from working to get it right. It CAN be great!

The hormone in Androgel is (from everything I've read) exactly the same as human testosterone. Thats one reason males have a better deal then women who get synthetic horse stuff.

As to your not feeling right on HRT. This I have some input on that might help.

Everytime you start on any HRT regiment - get new labs after two weeks of being on it regularly. And the labs MUST include estrodiol. You want those labs to have you in the middle of the range which is hummm. I'm pulling these numbers out my rear I don't have them handy.

325 - 1025? *Anyway its close to there.

If your dipping below that your too low. The drug delivery system maybe at fault. Creams, gels and patches just don't work for some men. *Try injectables...

If you have good labs for Testosterone look at your e2 (Estrodiol) labs. If they are over 30 (Again around there - I'm doing this from memory) your converting your T to E and this is going to screw up all the benifits of Testosterone. If your using Gels and have a pot belly? This might not work.

Chasing numbers is not the point. Chase "feeling right" if having labs of 399 is not doing anything it won't hurt anything to your dose and have labs of 700. Just don't go above 1025 or about there. Note changes in yourself. Energy? Falling asleep at work? Anxiety? Mood issues? Just happy being alive? Can you think clearly? Does sex disgust or bore you or make you excited? DO NOT believe this crap that slapping on a patch will restore your sex drive in day or two. I think it took several months for that part of me to come back. ALso mental clarity and this ONLY after my Doctor got me on the right dose and kept me there. And no, thats not always easy!

So I am trying to figure out this TRT thing. I've done T on and off over the last year, and I have now been on for the longest ever at 5 months.

Unfortunately I have noticed little to no improvement. Basically it doesn't seem to be working at all. What it has done for me is given me some body/facial hair, and perhaps some other slight bodily changes, except for fat loss - haven't lost a pound since starting T.

What it has not done for me is increased my energy, imrpoved my mood, or given me any libido. I do get noctural erections and get them with direct stimulation, but without they are rare. Even when I do get them through whatever means, there is zero sensation. As far as libido goes, it is zero.

I started out with the patches. The first time I actually did notice something of an improvement, but the patches were too inconvienient. Was off for a while then did shots at 50 mg/week. Those did nothing for me. Went off again.

Went back on about 5 months ago at 100 mg/week. Nothing again. Increased to 200/week (usually considered too high but approved by doctor). Nipples became very sore and swollen. Started an AI (aromatase inhibitor). That made the lack of libido/function worse. Got off the AI and went back to 100/week. Did that for several months with no improvement.

Just last week I started the gel. Testim 5g daily. It smells and it is not supposed to bring up the T levels as much as Androgel, but I did get a free 30-day supply of it.

One week on it and no difference. Could take longer, but gels are supposed to kick in faster. Not sure what to do now. Nothing seems to be working for me. The 10g dose would be nice but not affordable. 5g is not really affordable either, but if it made a difference we would try to struggle to afford it.

Applied for insurance that could cover all of this, or at least a good portion of it. Had to be honest about condition and medication. Not sure if I will be approved. They can decline me for pre existings since it is an individual plan. Even if I am approved insurance will also be expensive, probably more so for me if they will actually approve me.

If no insurance then I will have to continue going to this free clinic where the doctor seems to have no idea what he is doing. Has never once tested my hormone levels, probably because he isn't allowed to due to the costs of those tests. Wants me to go up to 400/week of T, which I think is ridiculously high. Believes that me finding the problems worse on 200 proves that they are "psychological." Doesn't seem to understand the principles of T to E conversion, which is very likely to occur on such a high dose.

I do believe that E conversion is at least a good part of the problem because of my very high bodyfat level for a man. My overall weight is 150, but my BF is in the 20s. Plenty of aromatase to go around. From what I've learned high E levels in a man inhibit libido and erectile function. I did do the AI, but I may have sent the levels too low, which apparently is just as bad. But then again, apparently if you get nocturnal erections then your E level is fine. So maybe not. What I need is a doctor who knows what the hell he is doing so I can figure out the problem and what needs to be done about it. But the usual financial limitations do apply.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I know that TRT is not the same as real T, but I expected to at least have some degree of libido return.

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

Just a few notes. I am supervised by a G.P., an endocrinologist and a urologist. The T shots I'm getting are less efective with the passage of time. My starting level was 75 my current steady levels are 480-500. The HRT is not identical to my "natural" state. As explained to me the difference is that testicles also provide hormones and substances other than testosterone. Most of these are not well researched so their exact function is not established. Other factors in the equation are age at loss of T, length of time without adequate T, level of other hormones and genetic make up. I was possibly without "normal" T levels for as long as 8 to 10 years. My genetic make up readily converts testosterone to estrogenic compounds (my weight affects this as well). As a result while I have more energy now my sexual functioning has undergone very definite changes. By no means am I complaining. As Popeye said: "I am what I am". I think that I am a good illustration of the "your mileage may vary" principal and that we all should keep in mind that our expectations may not equal our reality. --FLO--

[mrt (imported)]

Just a few notes. I am supervised by a G.P., an endocrinologist and a urologist. The T shots I'm getting are less efective with the passage of time. My starting level was 75 my current steady levels are 480-500. The HRT is not identical to my "natural" state. As explained to me the difference is that testicles also provide hormones and substances other than testosterone. Most of these are not well researched so their exact function is not established. Other factors in the equation are age at loss of T, length of time without adequate T, level of other hormones and genetic make up. I was possibly without "normal" T levels for as long as 8 to 10 years. My genetic make up readily converts testosterone to estrogenic compounds (my weight affects this as well). As a result while I have more energy now my sexual functioning has undergone very definite changes. By no means am I complaining. As Popeye said: "I am what I am". I think that I am a good illustration of the "your mileage may vary" principal and that we all should keep in mind that our expectations may not equal our reality. --FLO--

Hi Uncle:

I think you have to be carefull. If you have high estrodiol your receptors are clogged up with that and your NOT going to feel much in the way of benifits from testosterone. That has nothing to do with any mystery enzymes of the testicles!

As to long term use of HRT fading away with time? I've talked to dozens of guys on this stuff for decades and none of them report that but I don't know how many of them are intact. One of my Doctors spoke about the mysterys of the testicles and that they secrete some unknown things. Might be true?! I don't know but no one seems to be able to shed any light on what that would do? Or if they are really doing anything when a man is on HRT.