sag111 (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:00 am
Unfriendly YES it is as i am a republican and as i read the posts on this i see i am not wanted in here and am even told i should be shot.How can we say this and then condem thoes who kill like in Virgina.No i dont like people who want to kill me
Thank you for saying that. I think there are some who feel that anyone who is not anti republican should be shot etc. I don't even like debate but that kind? Sheesh! I thought we learned some things from 1930s Germany-think.
As for me I've become rather jaded. I don't think the differences between the parties is all that strong anymore and that the common thread is anti "us" in either case.
Some time ago, in fact, not that long ago, I made a post that I was resigning my duties at the Eunuch Archive. This came at a time when the hackers had torn the Archive to pieces, and none of us were sure if what we had worked day by day and for so long to build would ever be resurrected. I cited that the Archive was not what it used to be, and that I had had enough of the increasing hostility level.
But before I go into any more of that, let me give you a bit of back story.
I discovered the Archive back in late 1996 and became a more frequent visitor when I got my first PC in early 1997. Back then, there was a small story section and ONE message board. Your topic was the only thing that put it into a “section”, as there were no real sections as you see now. The silly thing also wasn’t moderated, and anyone could post anything. Then there was the Java chat room, which announced joins with a silly “POP” sound and tended to make Windows 95 (the best OS to be had back then!) freeze up solid a lot.
It was there that I met first Gem, then IE under a different name, Portentum, Talula, and of course, Bboy. There is no way to put into words the relief that I felt when I discovered that I was NOT the only person in the world with a fixation on castration. I was not alone in my desires and/or fantasies. And there was a LOT of fantasy back then, for those who recall.
The dark side of this was that I was, in fact, ready to attempt self-surgery via an elastrator. I was also ready to do this WITHOUT knowing the side effects of castration and testosterone deprivation. Those who know my history will already know that puberty was a rough and stuttering trip through for me, augmented by all those mysterious “tetanus boosters” I had when I wasn’t injured. To make a long story short, things started going haywire when I went off to college and those shots stopped. Things got worse some years later, as Talula and others will certainly recall, when I started seriously fooling around with elastrators and wound up doing some serious long-term damage from repeated inflammations that became untreated infections. Trust me, a systemic infection is not something you want to get, much less live through. THAT part of it was in my rampant fantasy days, and what followed with the pain and testosterone failure was the cold splash of reality that few tend to realize is really out there and will hit them…and hard!
Where this ramble is going is that the old chat here at EA is where I made my first online friends. As time passed, we moved on to IRC with Pirch98, etc., and spent many a night chatting away. It was there that these friends enlightened me and stopped me from doing something stupid that COULD have cost me my life, had I not met up with them and they stopped me. And when I did myself harm, and got sick as a result, those same EA friends were there to support me and keep me going. They were also there to say, “Been there, done that,” when the side effects of low T. set in. Through them, I adapted and decided to remain among the living.
As time passed, many a night was spent on ICQ chatting with Bboy about the Archive. He had plans. He had software. He had a dream. He only needed someone to stay up late and “play with him.” So I did. And in time, I fell in love with him. As he cobbled things together and I broke them in return, or fished out all the bugs in them, B. and I slowly started putting things together.
Enter Talula.
Here was a code-writing maniac who was a Godsend to the Archive and Bboy personally. To say nothing of his friendship to me, too. What B. had been going alone at, he assigned to Talula and I, and the Archive you see now actually began to take shape.
With B’s ideas, Talula writing it into code with him, and me trying to run it and break it, the first Archive Staff, per say, was formed. Personal lives began to change, and B. asked me to take on more duties. I agreed. I offered to do more than he asked. At this point, I had the stories to screen, edit, post, as well as all the email to answer and make referrals to. Many a night was spent on ICQ or some IM of the day chatting away with people who I’d never met, who I would never meet…
In 2001, I finally made the pilgrimage to the Mother Ship, also known as Talula’s place, where garages fly and so does Talula! I was there for almost a month. I dare say this was one of the happiest times of my life.
No one ever kissed me like B. did, and I don’t think anyone ever will again.
Things were running smoothly – except for the fact that B. was too nice of a guy and MADE ME DO ALL HIS DIRTY WORK! “You’re the bad cop,” he always reminded me, hence my persona.
And the Archive went on.
Life slowly changed, though, and B. eventually announced his retirement. The Archive was turned over to Talula, and a committee was formed of several members to oversee various issues. B. stepped back and watched his “child” placed into the loving hands of others.
And we did love the Archive, and it grew.
B. passed away some time later, leaving an aching void in all of us that we knew would never be truly filled by anyone else in this Life.
But his dream endured.
For a time.
Again, many things changed. That child grew up and became more than any of us ever foresaw.
New committee members took on more and more diverse duties.
Then came the big hack.
For me, this was almost like losing B. all over again when Talula told me, when I asked if it could be repaired, he grimly said, “P., I don’t know. I honestly don’t. It’s really bad.”
What seemed like an eternity later, the main page was back – but all that was there was a notice for users as to what had happened. It could be weeks, months, no one knew, before EA was back online.
I mentioned before that B. the “nice guy” who made me do his dirty work, and that is the truth. It was at the time of the big hack, however, that I decided to resign. Others were now doing the mail, giving advice, and I had been posting stories. Most of the Message Board oversight was now in Kristoff’s hands, along with Robby, Flo, and others I am probably leaving out. Apologies!
So I decided to take my leave of EA as it was handed over to IE. Change was in the air again, and I wanted nothing to do with it.
In that light, I made a post citing an increasing hostility level that I could no longer stand. Combined with demands on my time, increasing issues with being a part-time parent to five healthy boys, and changes in career, not to mention my emotional state of being over the possible loss of EA, I made my decision and left.
It was only Kristoff’s call for help that brought me back, and I will be totally honest with every one of you about this-
I did not want to do it.
As far as I was concerned, the EA that I knew had died – been murdered.
If you think there’s an amount of hostility on the Boards, try being a Moderator for a while! It wears on you after a while, trust me, and I’d been at this for years. In trying to enforce what I was told to enforce, I feel that I became the focus of this increasing hostility and I could take no more of it. Now, some would say that I brought it upon myself. I don’t dispute this at all. I freely admit that my style of management does not sit well with everyone and never will. My personality, for those who really know me, is loud and abrasive and sometimes violent. I currently have a cash contract out on someone whom I cannot get away with revenge on personally ... that is the real ME. I get things done, and when I’m done, no one EVER forgets that I fixed it.
Another truth is that I never wanted to do that, here.
But I did it for B., because he asked me to.
Now if you think that we just sit here and circle like vultures waiting to ban someone, you’re wrong. Explanations of our actions are not routinely posted for all to read, and there is no reason, I feel, to do so. I, and the other Mods for that matter, have put up with a LOT. Banning someone is the always the LAST resort, unless it’s a spammer.
Personalities and styles are hard to get right online, when you all have is text to read. It is far too easy to read things into posts that are not there. This is something that we all have screwed up with, I dare say.
But back to the issue at hand, yes, the hostility level has increased over the past few years at a pace of probably a slow boil. Lately, it’s been boiling over a LOT lately. Personal attacks have increased, the hate mail on this end has increased, and you may not believe it – but I have taken a much lighter approach to a LOT of things and probably let them go too far before something was done or said. And yet I still feel a lot of hostility here.
Others raise the point that those who really are physically eunuchs have “a thing” against those that are not. Those who know the reality of eunuchdom are far too snippy with newcomers. It is, I think, an “us” vs. “them” thing going on.
When I made my post saying that I was leaving, I encourage the Staff to do something about it.
When I was asked to come back, I tried personally to ease into it with a more upbeat attitude.
But that’s hard to maintain when you’re reminded on a daily basis that you are “the bad guy.”
Forums online must have rules, and they must have someone to enforce them.
Anyone who thinks this forum is bad needs to sign on to some others. For instance, I have hit boards where things were posted by Mods such as:
-If you start a topic that is already addressed, you will be banned. Use the search function before posting a topic.
-Posting off-topic to a subforum will get you banned.
-Story submissions MUST and WILL be in said format, or they will be accepted.
-Posts that diverge from the topic will be removed. Eventually you will be banned.
-“Bothering” other members will get you banned. Define “bothering” I thought…
So what’s to blame for the state of the EA Boards now?
I don’t know for sure.
What I do know, however, is that for me, EA long ago became work and not fun. Despite the collection of history and facts, thanks muchly to Jesus(A), something was and is still missing. Maybe we are too focused on the reality, and there is no longer a fun outlet for fantasies. Fantasies, recall, are what started EA and what still continue to bring others here today. Even though there is a forum for that, it’s not that high mileage of a forum. It’s nothing like the old 1-Board system used to be. You never knew what you would find there, or what someone would do in reply!
Is the fun gone, as Slammr mentions?
For me, yes.
For others who have emailed or PM’d or IM’d me since I came back, it is for them as well.
Some of those on Staff will remember the night at Talula’s table that the idea for an Archive Christmas Story came to me. I ran to the computer, and in a matter of hours, had turned out a story that had them thoroughly entertained as if Tolstoy had just written “War & Peace”. But that kind of inspiration is gone now.
And yet I feel there is a duty to those newcomers, because without EA being there and the friends I made through it, I shudder to think what might have happened in my life.
I cannot help but wonder what might happen if EA is not here to intercept a “newbie” who is about to make a huge mistake.
But I also wonder where the fun went.
And it’s not just at EA, folks, really.
Yes, there is a problem here.
But that same problem is everywhere.
How often does someone go off in public for the slightest offense or littlest error they see made? Stop and think for a moment, are you more or less hateful and intolerant than you were, say, ten years ago? Do you even realize it? And do you take it out on those around you, and upon those online who are “around you” there? Flames start flying at once anymore at the drop of a ham sandwich, it seems like. Passions ignite instantaneously anymore, and not just here at EA. I wonder if online Board use and commentary reflects our real lives?
Scary, isn’t it?
So here we are.
Yes, we have a problem.
And I don’t know how to fix it, for as much as I have personally tried. (Believe it or not.)
In brutal honesty, in closing my input on this topic, I admit that I do not want to be here now. I didn’t want to be here anymore when I left, and I didn’t want to come back to the hostility that I posted about. But a part of me finds this analogous to turning your back on a child that didn’t grow up to fit YOUR (my) own expectations. Having lived through that, I also do not want to do that with the Archive. I have promised myself that I will never do to any of “my” boys what was done to me. Then again, I have to stop and ask myself, does there come a time when one must do just that? Does one come to the point where the damage is irreparable?
As I said before, I often feel I have nothing left to advise or offer where EA is concerned. I certainly don't on this one, other than to invite PM's and email about it.
In answer to those who have messaged me, I will not respond in any detail now. It is the voice of others that needs be heard, not mine. This has been very informing so far, and ought be more so, I hope. Glad IE put this up; a needed discussion.
I also have the EA to thank for all the friends and answers i have gleaned from this board.I have many friends who are gay or transgendered and i have always been tolarent of others even though i may not agree with all they do.I feel to many in here just cant stand someone who has diffrent thoughts or is of a diffrent political party then they and the flaming and attacks begin.Yes the archive is importiant for the person like myself and others who need that help that can only be found in here.I guess if i were to sugest anything it would be to be more tollarent and accepting of others feelings and thoughts and stop the attacks that only make a person not want to come in here.
Paolo wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:23 pm
-If you start a topic that is already addressed, you will be banned. Use the search function before posting a topic.
-Posting off-topic to a subforum will get you banned.
These two rather surprised me.
Is there no room for deleting a post, moving a post, dropping a message to the poster, pointing out where the topic has already been dealt with?
I can understand the "bothering" people bit. But why the ultimate message-board sanction for these?
sag111 (imported) wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:00 am
Unfriendly YES it is as i am a republican and as i read the posts on this i see i am not wanted in here and am even told i should be shot.How can we say this and then condem thoes who kill like in Virgina.No i dont like people who want to kill me
Dad,
whoever told you that was totaly wrong to bring that kind of hate here.
Thanks for that story, Paolo. It brought back a lot of good memories. Some bad ones, too, but overwhelmingly it's the good ones that last.
I think you and Slammr have hit on something important with the fantasy and fun theme. This is going to sound incredibly lame given the quality of some of jokes, but even when I have taken a break from the Archive in the past, when I returned, the first place I checked out was the jokes section. Even the incredibly corny ones always make me smile, as do the silly, quicky stories where bits disappear as if my magic or when a mysterious hole receives a sudden stampede of Ford agency models seeking new smoothness. All that's still here, but it seems there used to be a much better balance between the serious (sometimes deadly serious) and the wacky, wild kool-aid fun.
Part of the problem is that the forums have become drearily technical and clinical, and I say this as someone who has faced some very serious stuff and who values the information and support the "reality" folks have to offer. Reality and seriousness have a place here, a highly important place, but we've gone too far -- the fun has been segregated to a kind of ghetto. Maybe that's what the majority wants, I don't know, but it didn't happen by accident.
I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular here, but I have to say that the marginalization of the lighter side comes from posters and moderators in equal measure. Even in the fantasies & biography and penectomy sections, people who post about their more esoteric fetishes get mocked. I'm sure it's not usually intended to be mean, but it comes off that way. Mods seem to carry a much bigger and quicker stick when it comes to this stuff, too.
How do we encourage more fun and fantasy? The first step is to stop discouraging it. Another step? Maybe separate the fantasy and biography sections and make the fantasy section a free-for-all zone (within legal limits, of course).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess that brings me back around to style. Paolo brought up his style explicitly, but I'm not talking about him or anyone else specifically. It's a general phenomenon that moderators often internalize and magnify the "bad cop" role they are forced to assume because of their position. It happens on all moderated boards. The guy who starts out having to make hard decisions with regret but a few months or years later is posting things that make it sound like he enjoys being a hard ass just for the fun of it.
Maybe it's a defense mechanism to shield against an unpleasant role. Maybe certain personality types are drawn to enforcing the rules. Maybe they (and others) think it's funny. I don't think it's helpful in the least, especially not in a comminuty where people are taking first steps out of a really deep closet.
More broadly, and I don't mean this to sound like a lecture, but there's a big difference between being your genuine self, standing up for the rules, feeling passionate about your ideas, etc. and not making choices about style and appropriateness for the circumstance. I get the impression that a lot of people -- here, elsewhere on the internet, in the world in general -- have this relatively new attitude that "this is how I act, I can't change it, and I don't give a flying flip if you like it". That's a crock. The people who take this attitude are making a choice with consequences.
People make the choice to modulate their normal mode of expression all the time. I'm doing it right now, or every other word would be an expletive (I don't mean that I'm pissed off right now -- I just cuss a lot). It's probably time for all of us to do more of it.
I think poll the question "Has the EA become less friendly?" may be the wrong question to ask. The main reason I feel this is, because as it is worded now, the poll simply elicits opinion which it simultaneously tints in a negative light, by implying there is a problem. This will skew the result of the poll, and any analysis derived from it.
Now I do feel there is a problem here on the EA with flaming and unfriendly behaviors though I can't say for sure if it is better or worse than it has been in the past. I do recall a red nun stomping out a forest fire over spelling and punctuation,:D but I digress.
The other reason I feel the poll is asking the wrong question has to do more with my personal philosophy. Simply stated, your first step should be in the direction you intend to go. I would suggest that goal is to make the EA the most warm and welcoming place it can be.
So my suggestion is to forget the radio button portion of the poll and simply ask people to suggest ways to make this a more friendly place.
The advantage is clear. By asking for solutions, you are actively engaging the members of the archive in a positive task. Assuming that there is an issue with negativity here on the archive, this step alone would do much to address the problem. First because the members are actively engaged in the process they are more likely to think about their own actions, and secondly because they will come up with many possible solutions and suggestions that no one or three people would ever come up with one their own.
As it stands now, the poll will yield many opinions on the severity of the problem, and perhaps some of the likely causes, it will yield few solutions. It also has the potential for descending into another round of acrimonious finger pointing, which at this point would be just one more sad thing to deal with.
So in keeping with my philosophy, here are two suggestions to help keep things nice.
1) On our EA splash page or at some point users will see it: A gentle and simple reminder to respect all forms of diversity here on the EA. Be it political view point, gender identity, sexual orientation, type or presence of genitalia i.e Almond Joy has got nuts, Mounds don't
2) On entering the political forum a reminder to users to debate only the issue and never the person. More importantly... What happens on the political forum stays on the political forum.
I would also like to remind every one of the wonderful job the administrators do keeping the EA alive and running as smoothly as it does. Paolo and Kristof especially. Their task is a thankless one as I have recently learned my self. I recently became a board member of the tavern pool league I play in. I have had to sit on two disciplinary hearing the season and ban to close personal friends. It stinks having to be the bad guy and being in the position where it is better to error on the side of caution rather than lenience.
First I have to say that I believe the EA has helped countless people and there is a place for it in the world. Too much complaining will do little more then secure a fate of the EA closing.
As with any chat room or blog, there are going to be people with different views then your own, the trick is to not take life so seriously. We should all be trying to stick together and support each other instead of pit ourselves against one another.
The chats and the boards have pretty simple rules; if they are followed there should not be any problems. Politics should be left out of both the chats and posts and so should egos.
My advise to anyone who is offended is to take a step back, take a deep breath and try to put yourself if the other persons shoes. If someone is attacking you or your belief the best thing to do sometimes is to ignore them! By responding to a threat or a demeaning post, you are fueling their flame. Eventually the problematic people leave, the good people stay.
Hope that helps, I guess it wasn't very critical or maybe even that helpful, but for some reason I keep coming back to the chats to talk with people because I enjoy them and I dont want that to change.
i.e Almond Joy has got nuts, Mounds don't 