Just wondering

[WunGawn (imported)]

how many of you are on other medication because of your castration, ex: diabetes medication or anti depressents, or even deca or estrogens.

The reason I ask is because I thought its impossible to even get out of bed and function proply with low testosterone levels.

[kristoff]

The notion you express is largely without merit. There are many many people who function without any or much testosterone or conversely estrogen. Menopausal women or andropausal men, for example. A great many people function well with relatively low levels. After sudden declines in gonadal hormones, many do experience losses in strength and increases in fatigue. However, as the body acclimates, the fatigue tends to abate. Strength is largely a matter determined by one's level of activity and exercise.

[tugon (imported)]

I function fine without T. I work two jobs and work circles around some of the teenagers at the store. Of course I am not hiding in corners flirting. As far as being diabetic it was in my genes and would have been a problem with or without testicles. As far as depression I had more problems before when I was not happy with myself. If I become depressed now it is because of an actual event.

[Paolo]

how many of you are on other medication because of your castration, ex: diabetes medication or anti depressents, or even deca or estrogens.

"Other medication"? - please define? Tylenol? Clairitin-D? Prozac? This reads like the idea that castration causes sudden onset of other issues. While it may for some things, as there is proof of depression for example, this is too broad to mean anything at all.

The reason I ask is because I thought its impossible to even get out of bed and function proply with low testosterone levels.

Nope, been there, done that. You get up, you go on, you deal with it - some better than others. And what does this have to do with being on medication for anything else?

[bryan (imported)]

I was medication-free before castration, but now I take estrogen on-and-off as an anti-depressant. One nice feature is I can stop without the sort of withdrawal effects real anti-depressants have.

Terri

[WunGawn (imported)]

"Other medication"? - please define? Tylenol? Clairitin-D? Prozac? This reads like the idea that castration causes sudden onset of other issues. While it may for some things, as there is proof of depression for example, this is too broad to mean anything at all.

Nope, been there, done that. You get up, you go on, you deal with it - some better than others. And what does this have to do with being on medication for anything else?

any medication, i thought castration would cause a sudden or atleast gradual onset of atleast 1 problem or another.

i mean medication due a problem caused from castration, such as diabetes or depression or mascular weakness etc.

[JesusA (imported)]

This is one of those cases of "Your Mileage WILL Vary."

Some may find that they need less (or no) medication for previous problems. Others will find new problems that need medication.

Osteoporosis is a real concern, though anyone reading the Archive will know to get a bone density scan and begin taking steps to reduce the possibility. Men with intact testicles can suffer osteoporosis as well. My grandfather died of the effects of a fracture that he suffered as a result of it.

Depression, while a possibility, is certainly not inevitable. While it is certainly a major problem for prostate cancer patients, who are castrated when they do not want to be, it isn't necessarily as great a problem for voluntary eunuchs.

The question needs to be much more carefully designed if it is to have any real meaning.

[Sac_mec (imported)]

For the excellent reasons already outlined by both Paolo and Jesus, I think the poll as it stands is meaningless. It needed more thought and appears to be only aimed at castrated eunuchs and not all eunuchs; chemical included.

I'm not at all knocking your interest in raising health questions - that's good

It is too simple a question and the answers won't reveal anything of merit, imho.

{I'm not going to vote for that reason}.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

WunGawn,

Normally, castration should not result in any conditions that require medications. If you neuter your pet, for instance (just as an introductory example), there is nothing you have to give it if the surgery site has healed fine without secondary infections. The only thing one has to watch for is a possible increased risk of obesity, as a result of reduced metabolism and unadjusted feeding patterns. And yes, pronounced obesity can and does lead to various health problems, but, if kept under control, your pet is expected to remain healthier and with a greater life expectancy because castration actually leads to a decreased risk of a number of potentially life-threatening and hard to treat diseases.

Pretty much the same in humans, with only a few differences. One of them is, of course, the much more complex emotional and intellectual capacity of the human mind. There are also a few minor physiological differences on the impact of castration across species:

Some may find that they need less (or no) medication for previous problems. Others will find new problems that need medication.

Prostate cancer complications are probably the most obvious example, although, there is also evidence that castration sometimes leads to a significant drop in blood pressure. I remember, for instance, Andrew (who at the time was 56) reporting that his doctor was taking him off his blood pressure meds due a drop of up to 20 points in blood pressure shortly after surgery. Several other eunuchs have also reported a tendency to decreased BP after castration.

On the other hand, some eunuchs (mostly older) have been taken additional medications at certain points after surgery (most notably various hormones, but also diabetes medications and even SSRI's), but, because most have become eunuchs relatively late in life, it is very possible that most of these health problems were already imminent and would have arrived regardless, mainly as a result of increasing age and lifestyle habits.

Osteoporosis is a real concern, though anyone reading the Archive will know to get a bone density scan and begin taking steps to reduce the possibility. Men with intact testicles can suffer osteoporosis as well. My grandfather died of the effects of a fracture that he suffered as a result of it.

I believe that non-HRT eunuchs do not face any more risk of osteoporosis than do age-matched females, at worst. Most of the evidence tend to point in this direction (with an increase of about 5% to 10% in all-cause fractures in men with prostate cancer recieving ADT according to the reviews involving up to 50,000 cancer survivors; however, most of these older men were found to have been at increased risk for osteoporisis before the initiation of treatment, with a history of poor calcium intake, sedentary lifestyle and low body mass). While there is an almost inevitable decline of bone density right after surgery in adult men at any age, I believe this is simply a part of a relatively harmless remodeling process - a result of sexual dimorphism - along with declines in muscle mass and changes in adipose fat distribution. A castrated male does not need to maintain all of the extra muscle and bone mass above the minimum neccessary for optimal survival and mobility (this is only of biological significance for dominant hormonal males in order to sustain fights over females and territory). Just as muscle decrease stabilizes over time and does not lead to progressive sarcopenia, the decrese in BMD is likewise only temporary, and would largely represent a

reversal toward a more pre-pubertal state, not "osteoporosis" as some doctors would like to percieve ANY signs of bone loss in adults (pre-pubertal boys have about 60% less BMD than adults, and of course, they also have a significantly less muscle mass; as do women compared to men at basically any age after puberty).

Interestingly, there is no historical evidence that osteoporotic fractures were a problem in eunuchs, even older eunuchs. Three different medical studies in the beginning of the 20th century have found decreased BMD in Chinese eunuchs with significant prevalence of kyphosis (although most of the Chinese eunuchs appeared to be skinny and malnourished; there was a widespread vitamin D deficiency at that time in China), although less and no kyphosis was detected in the Skopzy and the Turkish eunuchs, respectively.

No fractures were reported in all of the about 100 eunuchs examined, within the age range from 17 to 91 years, with a mean age of about 55. All of the historical reports regarding the Italian castrati in retirement does not indicate even a single relevant handicap that could imply osteoporosis, either.

Depression, while a possibility, is certainly not inevitable. While it is certainly a major problem for prostate cancer patients, who are castrated when they do not want to be, it isn't necessarily as great a problem for voluntary eunuchs.

It may be a major problem for those who are prone to develop it, but the largest study that so far has been carried out examining the relationship between depression and ADT in 50 613 prostate cancer patients vs. 50 476 men without cancer with a follow up of 5 years, found no significant link between depression and impaired cognitive episodes and ADT, that could not be explained by other confounding factors.

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/4/465

Results : Of men surviving at least 5 years after diagnosis, 31.3% of those receiving androgen deprivation developed at least 1 depressive, cognitive, or constitutional diagnosis compared with 23.7% in those who did not (P<.001). After adjustment for variables such as comorbidity, tumor characteristics, and age, the risks associated with androgen deprivation were substantially reduced or abolished: relative risk (RR) for depression diagnosis, 1.08 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.02-1.15); RR for cognitive impairment, 0.99 (95% CI, 0.94-1.04); and RR for constitutional symptoms, 1.17 (95% CI, 1.13-1.22).

Conclusion : Depressive, cognitive, and constitutional disorders occur more commonly in patients receiving androgen deprivation, but this appears to be primarily because patients receiving androgen deprivation are older and have more comorbid conditions and more advanced cancers.

These are apparently very encouraging results, if one consider that the men recieving ADT were compelled to recieve treatment, and that men in the control group were both younger and completely free of prostate cancer (although depression rates are often underreported among patients, the diagnostic approach was identical between the groups).

Concerning the eunuch community, an extensive search that I did of the 23 surgical eunuchs that apparently gave feedback on the issue of depression on the internet (with 22 on the EA), and that have not taken hrt for at least a few months during the time of surgery, 12 reported no depression associated with castration (with 3 reporting less depression), 3 had moderate to serious issues wich subsided signifcantly over time (of whom 2 already had depression issues before castration), with 3 still apparently having on-going issues, of whom 1, again, had serious problems with depression that predated his castration, with the rest being somewhere in between.

It seems that, as Andrew once put it "Probably many eunuchs, including myself, had long term chronic depression BEFORE castration. The Eunuch Calm reduced the background noise of testosterone-induced sexuality, aggression, and ambition, bringing the depression to the forefront." ie. that those eunuchs who are still troubled by depression after their castrations, often have a history of being significantly more prone to experience depressive episodes, including mood instability, than the "average" male population, under any circumstances. Personally, I suspect that most of these depressive reactions may also be largely of a psychosomatic origin (such as loss of libido, psychosexual social implications, underlying subconscious causes, etc. as contributory factors).

Interestingly, castration is

not associated with depression in most animals. In fact, neutered male dogs appear to become more active, affectio

nate and playful if neutered at a younger age.

For the excellent reasons already outlined by both Paolo and Jesus, I think the poll as it stands is meaningless.

Yep, I too am of the opinion that the poll is, as it stands, completely useless for the purpose it was intended. It does not give a coherent picture of anything. There should have been a more specific category for each "medication" (for example, should hrt or dietary supplements be considered medication, too?), and whether those who are taking these medications believe they are doing so "because" or "independent" of their castration and/or hypogonadism.

[A-1 (imported)]

how many of you are on other medication because of your castration, ex: diabetes medication or anti depressents, or even deca or estrogens.

The reason I ask is because I thought its impossible to even get out of bed and function proply with low testosterone levels.

If you are having the problems that you describe you need to see a GOOD DOCTOR and find out what is wrong with you.

Testosterone is NOT essential to physical activity...