Not sure if you are on hormone replacement why the extra calcuim. My dose is about 2x "normal." I wonder if HRT testosterone is not exactly the same or if there are other missing hormones that require more calcium.
Don
To see if it suits me
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DonnyMac (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
DonnyMac (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:45 pm Not sure if you are on hormone replacement why the extra calcuim. My dose is about 2x "normal." I wonder if HRT testosterone is not exactly the same or if there are other missing hormones that require more calcium.
Don
Get more calcium, D. magnesium, zinc. Replacement T is nowhere near the real stuff.
Even still, get a bone scan and pay attention.
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mrt (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
kristoff wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:55 pm Get more calcium, D. magnesium, zinc. Replacement T is nowhere near the real stuff.
Even still, get a bone scan and pay attention.
I'll do that. Already taking 50 mg of Zinc. Any suggestions on amounts of Calcium, & Magnesium? I'm on a full dose of Androgel.
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Riven (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
Day 5 on cyproterone acetate 50mg daily:
Yes, bone density is my main worry. I am not taking any extra calcium, vit D, etc. yet, but I'll get some suppliments next time I'm in the pharmacy.
Hot flushes are still robbing me of sleep. Will change to a summer duvet (quilt) today. Did a lot of D.I.Y. yesterday which involved a fair amount of work with a hand saw. It felt like hard work and left me feeling pooped. Not sure if it's the lack of sleep or if falling testosterone levels have impacted on my energy and strength allready. I suspect a bit of both.
Tried masturbating in bed last night in an attempt to get off to sleep. Penis not very interested. I got a partial hard on for a while, but it wasn't responding to the manual stimulation and I wasn't motivated enough to seek porn, etc. so I gave up.
A bit of morning wood before I got up, but spongy and only lasted a minute or so. I guess I'm almost chemically castrated now, and I haven't even been doing it a week. Strong stuff indeed!
Yes, bone density is my main worry. I am not taking any extra calcium, vit D, etc. yet, but I'll get some suppliments next time I'm in the pharmacy.
Hot flushes are still robbing me of sleep. Will change to a summer duvet (quilt) today. Did a lot of D.I.Y. yesterday which involved a fair amount of work with a hand saw. It felt like hard work and left me feeling pooped. Not sure if it's the lack of sleep or if falling testosterone levels have impacted on my energy and strength allready. I suspect a bit of both.
Tried masturbating in bed last night in an attempt to get off to sleep. Penis not very interested. I got a partial hard on for a while, but it wasn't responding to the manual stimulation and I wasn't motivated enough to seek porn, etc. so I gave up.
A bit of morning wood before I got up, but spongy and only lasted a minute or so. I guess I'm almost chemically castrated now, and I haven't even been doing it a week. Strong stuff indeed!
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Dormant (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm fascinated to read how it is effecting you. I love the thought that you are being effectively castrated by taking these small pills. I would also love to have that experience. Please continue to tell us how it feels.
Thank you
Thank you
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estragen (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
hi, I am interested in simulating surgical castration by hormonal means to get a feeling on what the real thing will be like.
Just started taking estrogen to fight the testosterone to a draw, and curious if anyone could recommend something to supplement the estrogen or replace it entirely.Not under a doctors supervision but concerned about long range health problems of these medications and have learned a lot just in a few days reading the posts of others. In the long run maybe
turns out to be the fantasy of the week.
moving forward
and sideways
Just started taking estrogen to fight the testosterone to a draw, and curious if anyone could recommend something to supplement the estrogen or replace it entirely.Not under a doctors supervision but concerned about long range health problems of these medications and have learned a lot just in a few days reading the posts of others. In the long run maybe
turns out to be the fantasy of the week.
moving forward
and sideways
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TerryUK (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
Dormant (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:52 am Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm fascinated to read how it is effecting you. I love the thought that you are being effectively castrated by taking these small pills.
My own experience, now five years ago, is that for three weeks I was on 300 mg daily. There was a reason for the large daily dosage. I was about to undergo radiotherapy for prostate cancer and the oncologist wanted to get my prostate reduced in size quickly so as to make it more amenable to the effect of the X-rays. Yes, I certainly did have hot flushes!
As soon as I had finished the three weeks on cyproterone, I was given my first implant of Zoladex. This really was chemical castration. Whereas you can at any time stop taking the tablets, an implant is inside you and its effects will continue for 12 weeks from its insertion whether you like it or not. Like surgical castration, you can't change your mind. I was injected with an implant every 12 weeks for a year.
A couple of months after having the last implant I was aware that the effect was beginning to wear off though very slowly. The last implant was injected in February 2003. By June I was aware that the effects of testosterone were returning. At my regular visits to see my urologist I suggested surgical castration.
Before my visit in September, I wrote to my urologist setting out in some detail
also wrote that my wife would be accompanying me to the consultation. I think that this was important. I was castrated by my urologist on September 23, 2003.
Following my castration I have had a bone scan. As a precaution I take a tablet of sodium alendronate once a week and tablets of calcium with vitamin D twice a day.
Because of the cancer, I had the advantage of being under regular supervision, with regular blood tests, by both oncologist and urologist as well as by my own physician. My PSA is now less than 0.1.
Terry (a very contented eunuch)
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Riven (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
I had intended to post a diary on this thread on a weekly basis, but I just didnt get round to it. How typical is that? The following progress report is from sporadic notes I made on a notepad a few weeks back, plus a more recent overview.
Week 1 (during which I was taking cyproterone acetate 50mg daily):
So this is the eunuch calm. When I sit down on the sofa I find myself relaxing completely (a feeling which is new to me) and my mind kind of 'slips into neutral'. More relaxed than I have ever been. It takes a little effort to engage or I just sit there doing nothing. In some ways this is very nice, but Im a little worried that I wont get anything done. When I got down to some DIY chores (building come cupboards from scratch), I found myself far less distracted (or distractible) and I found myself being surprisingly productive. When my wife and I took a walk down to the river (we walk for exercise - it's also a great time to talk) I didn't find myself any less able or willing to exercise. The days are good. The nights not so good. Im hoping the hot flushes dont go on for too long like this.
One of the main things that I have learned so far, is that I am not feeling so anxious. This may not be particularly surprising, but now that I know what it feels like to be relieved of it I realise that I have been suffering from anxiety all my life. There's food for thought!
Day 5: As we walked yesterday, my wife and I discussed my levels of sexual frustration (the reason for my castration) and I had to admit that I wasn't feeling so horny. So things were going quite well. I think my wife is more intrigued by all this than shes been admitting. She never would have thought of it in the first place but she has admitted liking the fantasy of my being castrated to control my sexual urges. So, despite her low sex drive, she seems a little titillated by all this. I guess it brings out the dominatrix in her. Weve had sex twice this week! (Hows that for irony?) But I guess it's no surprise to anyone that I am finding it less than easy to give her 'a good seeing to' (as we Brits so quaintly put it).
*******
So, a very interesting week has passed, but I have decided to stop taking the tablets. Why? Well, I was beginning to fear that in my relaxed state I'd not bother to practice on my guitar, or do anything much, and I felt that this would impact on my sense of self worth. If that had been the only issue I would have stuck it out (ie carried on taking the cyproterone) to see if my fears in this area were well founded. But I have been having serious trouble coping with the discomfort of the hot flushes. It wasn't bad during the day. I'd have the odd period when I felt a bit warm, but the nights were awful. I'd lie awake for hours wondering if I'd EVER get to sleep, tossing and turning and trying to move my legs to the cool patch of the bed. The feeling is a kind of burning and itching. I'd try uncovering them, but then the cool air would make me feel less like sleeping. I just didn't know how to manage it, and I was getting perhaps an hour's sleep at most. But I didn't go around yawning and falling asleep during the day. It was as though my sleep requirement had dramatically fallen from my usual 7 hours to 1 or 2, although my body clock was still telling me that I should be getting the usual 7. I was finding it very disorientating. I didn't really feel terribly tired, but I was increasingly zombie like. For sure, I was experiencing the 'eunuch calm' but I wouldn't be able to say how much of that was due to lack of sleep.
So that was the end of week 1. My wife isn't surprised that I was finding the hot flushes a bit rough (we think more men should try this so that they can be a bit more sympathetic towards their wives) but she was surprised that I was finding it bad enough that I wanted to give up the trial castration. She's pleased (well, we both are) that I tried chemical castration rather than jumping straight in and having surgery.
Week 2 (having quit the tablets for a week):
The effects of cyproterone take quite a while to wear off. During the week when I was taking the tablets I was still getting erections, although towards the end of the week they were not so strong or prolonged. By the end of the week, despite the fact that I had quit the tabs I was still having uncomfortable hot legs at night and I was still experiencing a few hot flushes during the day. But I was starting to get more sleep and I was feeling a bit more lively during the day. [Before castration] my cock used to spring to attention at the suggestion of sex, but now it takes a good bit of tactile stimulation before I achieve an erection. (Yes, my wife is still interested in seeing if I can still get it up.) Then during intercourse I'm finding it surprisingly hard work to keep going. I have to make an effort to keep thrusting, and the urge to ejaculate just doesn't seem to come. In fact the last time we had sex (that would be about a week after quitting the cyproterone) I couldn't finish. I just lost the urge. Luckily, it didn't matter to my wife. Her interest in having sex isnt fuelled by her sex drive as much as a desire for closeness, plus a little curiosity.
Week 3:
The hot flushes have very much subsided, and I am getting more sleep. I can feel the tension coming back into my muscles and I have more 'get up and go'. I'm now starting to think about sex again, and had the urge to masturbate last night. But after trying for a while I gave up. I am completely impotent.
Week 4:
I am still troubled occasionally by prickly legs at night, but overall my temperature is back to normal. Some mornings at about 6 am I have had momentary morning wood, but only a partial erection. I cannot get it up enough for masturbation or sex.
Week 8
I dont have any more notes to work from, but from memory Id say that I stopped getting hot flushes and started sleeping properly after about week 4 or 5. I think my erections (quality and frequency) are back to normal now. The effects of the cyproterone lasted much longer than I expected.
My advice to anyone starting to take cyproterone (Androcur) for the first time would be to believe what the drug manufacturer prints on the leaflet, ie. ..........the most powerful anti-androgen yet developed...... The extreme range of dosage comes from input that some people find 10 mg/wk sufficient to induce total impotence, and yet others take as much as 200 mg/day with no obvious short-term adverse effects. Given this range, it would seem prudent to start on the low side and work your way up only if necessary. More than 100 mg/day is generally considered excessive.
They also add:
There are some reports of depression when the dosage is too high for a given individual. There appears to be a causal relationship because the depression evidently disappeared as soon as the dosage was reduced, according to those reports. Which has caused me to wonder if I was taking far too big a dose.
That's it for now. I'm really pleased to have had a brief trial run. I may try again sometime, but I'd go into it on a very low dose and increase it slowly if necessary.
Riven
Week 1 (during which I was taking cyproterone acetate 50mg daily):
So this is the eunuch calm. When I sit down on the sofa I find myself relaxing completely (a feeling which is new to me) and my mind kind of 'slips into neutral'. More relaxed than I have ever been. It takes a little effort to engage or I just sit there doing nothing. In some ways this is very nice, but Im a little worried that I wont get anything done. When I got down to some DIY chores (building come cupboards from scratch), I found myself far less distracted (or distractible) and I found myself being surprisingly productive. When my wife and I took a walk down to the river (we walk for exercise - it's also a great time to talk) I didn't find myself any less able or willing to exercise. The days are good. The nights not so good. Im hoping the hot flushes dont go on for too long like this.
One of the main things that I have learned so far, is that I am not feeling so anxious. This may not be particularly surprising, but now that I know what it feels like to be relieved of it I realise that I have been suffering from anxiety all my life. There's food for thought!
Day 5: As we walked yesterday, my wife and I discussed my levels of sexual frustration (the reason for my castration) and I had to admit that I wasn't feeling so horny. So things were going quite well. I think my wife is more intrigued by all this than shes been admitting. She never would have thought of it in the first place but she has admitted liking the fantasy of my being castrated to control my sexual urges. So, despite her low sex drive, she seems a little titillated by all this. I guess it brings out the dominatrix in her. Weve had sex twice this week! (Hows that for irony?) But I guess it's no surprise to anyone that I am finding it less than easy to give her 'a good seeing to' (as we Brits so quaintly put it).
*******
So, a very interesting week has passed, but I have decided to stop taking the tablets. Why? Well, I was beginning to fear that in my relaxed state I'd not bother to practice on my guitar, or do anything much, and I felt that this would impact on my sense of self worth. If that had been the only issue I would have stuck it out (ie carried on taking the cyproterone) to see if my fears in this area were well founded. But I have been having serious trouble coping with the discomfort of the hot flushes. It wasn't bad during the day. I'd have the odd period when I felt a bit warm, but the nights were awful. I'd lie awake for hours wondering if I'd EVER get to sleep, tossing and turning and trying to move my legs to the cool patch of the bed. The feeling is a kind of burning and itching. I'd try uncovering them, but then the cool air would make me feel less like sleeping. I just didn't know how to manage it, and I was getting perhaps an hour's sleep at most. But I didn't go around yawning and falling asleep during the day. It was as though my sleep requirement had dramatically fallen from my usual 7 hours to 1 or 2, although my body clock was still telling me that I should be getting the usual 7. I was finding it very disorientating. I didn't really feel terribly tired, but I was increasingly zombie like. For sure, I was experiencing the 'eunuch calm' but I wouldn't be able to say how much of that was due to lack of sleep.
So that was the end of week 1. My wife isn't surprised that I was finding the hot flushes a bit rough (we think more men should try this so that they can be a bit more sympathetic towards their wives) but she was surprised that I was finding it bad enough that I wanted to give up the trial castration. She's pleased (well, we both are) that I tried chemical castration rather than jumping straight in and having surgery.
Week 2 (having quit the tablets for a week):
The effects of cyproterone take quite a while to wear off. During the week when I was taking the tablets I was still getting erections, although towards the end of the week they were not so strong or prolonged. By the end of the week, despite the fact that I had quit the tabs I was still having uncomfortable hot legs at night and I was still experiencing a few hot flushes during the day. But I was starting to get more sleep and I was feeling a bit more lively during the day. [Before castration] my cock used to spring to attention at the suggestion of sex, but now it takes a good bit of tactile stimulation before I achieve an erection. (Yes, my wife is still interested in seeing if I can still get it up.) Then during intercourse I'm finding it surprisingly hard work to keep going. I have to make an effort to keep thrusting, and the urge to ejaculate just doesn't seem to come. In fact the last time we had sex (that would be about a week after quitting the cyproterone) I couldn't finish. I just lost the urge. Luckily, it didn't matter to my wife. Her interest in having sex isnt fuelled by her sex drive as much as a desire for closeness, plus a little curiosity.
Week 3:
The hot flushes have very much subsided, and I am getting more sleep. I can feel the tension coming back into my muscles and I have more 'get up and go'. I'm now starting to think about sex again, and had the urge to masturbate last night. But after trying for a while I gave up. I am completely impotent.
Week 4:
I am still troubled occasionally by prickly legs at night, but overall my temperature is back to normal. Some mornings at about 6 am I have had momentary morning wood, but only a partial erection. I cannot get it up enough for masturbation or sex.
Week 8
I dont have any more notes to work from, but from memory Id say that I stopped getting hot flushes and started sleeping properly after about week 4 or 5. I think my erections (quality and frequency) are back to normal now. The effects of the cyproterone lasted much longer than I expected.
My advice to anyone starting to take cyproterone (Androcur) for the first time would be to believe what the drug manufacturer prints on the leaflet, ie. ..........the most powerful anti-androgen yet developed...... The extreme range of dosage comes from input that some people find 10 mg/wk sufficient to induce total impotence, and yet others take as much as 200 mg/day with no obvious short-term adverse effects. Given this range, it would seem prudent to start on the low side and work your way up only if necessary. More than 100 mg/day is generally considered excessive.
They also add:
There are some reports of depression when the dosage is too high for a given individual. There appears to be a causal relationship because the depression evidently disappeared as soon as the dosage was reduced, according to those reports. Which has caused me to wonder if I was taking far too big a dose.
That's it for now. I'm really pleased to have had a brief trial run. I may try again sometime, but I'd go into it on a very low dose and increase it slowly if necessary.
Riven
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vesal_mas (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
Thanks for this detailed and nice report, Riven
Sad to hear about that flashes you had. You had a very interesting experience. Your warning to others is very valuable.
Vesal!
Sad to hear about that flashes you had. You had a very interesting experience. Your warning to others is very valuable.
Vesal!
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Dormant (imported)
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Re: To see if it suits me
Hi, Just wanted to say thank you for your interesting account of your experiences with Adrocur. I'm fascinated by the powerful emasculating effects of Androcur and would really like to see how it feels for myself. I'm a bit worried though by the warnings of possible liver damage. I was particularly interested that your wife seemed to be titilated that you were being chemically castrated. How delightful!