Castration in fiction books

[Karelescu (imported)]

I'm sorry, but you fail to state who the "us" in your post is. Maybe other readers know you, so please forgive me. I never like being rude. You also fail to define who and what you are. I am sorry to be unkind, but I doubt your assertion about your surgeon. This is a strand about literature, not about you. If you do not have a book to discuss (with a little, undefindable personal detail), then there are other places for your posts.

Oh, and yes, I was born yesterday. And yes, I am a female. So there. Take that, Cambridge-scholars!

Nicky

[Karelescu (imported)]

I've just realized that I fully misunderstood your letter, Kelly 2. My unreserved and utter apologies. However, you still don't get the point. I don't want to be a eunuch, (or have a clit-cut); I don't want to have a eunuch-boyfriend, I am merely fascinated by the subject. And you do me a disservice in thinking that my better novel is a eunuch-wish-fufilment. It isn't like that at all. When I set out to write it, I was trying to do another "Honey I shrank the kids". How do you follow a hit, unless with shit? I got carried away. So, it became "Honey I turned our boy into a girl". It has NOTHING to do with eunuchs. It's just fun. And she gets very depressed, and wonders if she would have been more okay if she were still a boy, but she likes being a girl and blah blah blah. Oh, and it has gymanstics and Danish people and God-only-knows what else. Oo, and a helluva lotabout former East Germany. Oh, and there are bits when she gets very upset.

How do I define myself?

In the words of the song: "I'm just a girl in the world...."

Oh, and I am sorry if you all thought I was a guy. But, none of you have met me, so how would you know?

Nicky. (Oh, yes I think I put myself down as a guy for this site. Didn't think I'd get access other).

Once again, my apologies for posting a venomous resposnse.

Yours, shamefully, Nicky

(Oh, and why was I pretending to be a guy? Well, it was safer. I have no desire to hurt anyone. I am just, as I said, fascinated. I hope that'll do). Nicky. Live with it, duh.

[Karelescu (imported)]

Oh, and don't get the hots for me. I am tiny, uninteresting and dully blonde - and I am told I look like a fish. With spectacles. So there.

Nicky (but I am quite nice otherwise)

[Karelescu (imported)]

Dear Slammr,

Thank you very much for the information you posted.

Nicky.

[Kelly_2 (imported)]

There are several mentions of this is the Satyricon by Petronius. It was wiritten in the First Century AD, and even the main character, Encolpius, attempts to cut off his own weenie, but it shrunk up so much that he could not even find it once he had the knife ready to make the cut. This was required reading (in the original Latin) in college.

The Golden Ass by Apuleius, Second Century AD, references this as well. Indeed, castration was a common theme in the literature of this time period.

Hugs,

Kelly

[Kelly_2 (imported)]

Oh, and perhaps my favorite poet is Catullus, who lived in the First Century BC. Catullus 63 is about Attis and "her" surgery. Often, female pronous were used for castrated and/or penectomized guys in this time period. Indeed, fiction reflects fact, and transsexuals of this and other times opted for emasculation as an early form of sex reassignment surgery.

Panoussi writes:

http://www.apaclassics.org/AnnualMeetin ... oussi.html

I argue that Catullus adapts and manipulates this pattern of maenadic activity to create a unique portrait of female sexuality. Attis' adoption of maenadism represents the first stage of his feminization marked by the young man's act of self-castration while in a Bacchic frenzy. Moreover, at the climax of his maenadic activity, Attis is likened to a heifer running from the yoke (33)...

In addition, as anthropological studies have shown, the individual's passage from the group of adolescents to the adult group is an important loss, emotional and otherwise (Van Gennep, The Rites of Passage, Chicago 1960). In ritual, the resistance of the losing group is expressed by rites of capture or rape. The bride's forceful separation from her maternal household survives in the other Catullan epithalamia. Similarly, in 63, Attis is forced by the goddess to remain her slave. The image of Cybele untying the lion's yoke stands as a symbol of her domination over Attis but also evokes the former image of the youth's resistance to the yoke, as Attis still resists the goddess (80, 86). The poem thus carefully constructs Attis as female, challenging gender distinctions and excluding Attis from all society, in a permanent state of liminality.

Hugs,

Kelly

[Karelescu (imported)]

Your post reminds me of Frazer's "Golden Bough". Am I right in my recollection? It's very much about what you say. Oh, and yes, I'd love to get into an argument about female-domination in Ancient Greek societies, but I have one hundred term-papers to mark, and I have just dropped half of them in the bath. Guess they'll all get As, and my hair goes blue. Ah well. Plus ce change, as it were. (I can't do foreign words on my system).

Yes, I like Catullus also, but I am far too Sapphic to be Roman.

But what sprang (the wrong phrase) to mind was when boys were taken for castration by those naughty people that we can no longer mention without being racist, sexist, nexist or plexist - and God only knows what else-ist! Apparently, sometimes, a boy would be so (understandably) terrified that his balls would go back inside his body-cavity. The poor moors would find nothing to excise (and other readers might like to know that is where taxation began - hence Customs and Excise in the UK - everything begins somewhere).

One of our chums posted about white slaves in Persia being allowed (Golly) to keep their penises (I think it's on Page One of this thread, and I refer you to her).

Yours, with a Major General, in a white-wine sauce with a fried-egg on top and spam (no, meaty spam. I love spa...blah blah).

Oh, and sorry. I got the song wrong. It's not as hopeful as I thought. It's like this:

I'M JUST A GIRL IN THE WORLD

COZ THAT'S ALL YOU WILL LET ME BE!!

WOAHOH AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR?

See ya.

Nicky.

Oh, do people wanna know what I look like? Got some photo somewhere, but probably with the spectacles. Can't talk longer. Studie-papers in the bath. (I am joking - even I am not as irresponsible as Oxford).

Your ever loving Nicky.

The Nicky who needs someone to tell her to relax a bit and go to bed and go to sleep, without the dreams. And without waking up every hour...and blah blah blah - with a fried egg on top and spam.

Night night.

N

[An Onymus (imported)]

Hmmmm.......Perhaps this thread is one place where a "bs artist" smilie might have come in handy......

[Karelescu (imported)]

I am writing to say sorry to our friend STammr. You may think I kinda cut you off, my friend, but no. Sorry, but sometimes it takes me ages to write any reply; and I think your suberb comments were out of synch with my reply to someone else. I have enjoyed your information, and value it. Please don't stop. I will try to be more efficient and helpful with my own postings from now on, and try to make my responses more tailored to whoever posts. That's all I can say. Plus, the magic words: I am sorry.

Sleep well, keep well, be well.

Nicky.

[Karelescu (imported)]

Hmmmm.......Perhaps this thread is one place where a "bs artist" smilie might have come in handy......

I am sorry to have to tell you two things:

1. No. The last thing we want is silly smilie faces

2. If you have nothing to contribute to the discussion, then please don't contribute.

Nicky