Questions from a younger male

[numnuts (imported)]

You seem to have a fixation on sex and an obssession with your genitals. You also seem to favor a God that feels the same way. And as such, I wish you great success in your endeavor.

[Brandon86 (imported)]

You seem to have a fixation on sex and an obssession with your genitals. You also seem to favor a God that feels the same way. And as such, I wish you great success in your endeavor.

You know, our dispute over politics doesn't have spill over here. Though I must point out that I have no fixation on sex. In fact, I have a low sex drive. I favor a God who loves His creation and looks over His children. Peace and blessings to you.

[Riverwind (imported)]

I have not been on for a few days and this is the first time to read this thread.

I knew Brandon86 was 20 by his name, its common as my sons is Pattrick84, yes hes 22.

Brandon, just take your time, there is no hurry and never let someone push you if your not ready. You will know when its time to or not to.

Its a great idea to talk to TheFraj and Plix, I know both personally and they are both fine young people.

Good luck

River

[Hairless (imported)]

"Certainly the words of Matthew 19:12 have been followed by many

Christians from the very earliest days. Tertullian, one of the

earliest Christian theologians, claimed that Jesus himself was a

eunuch. He also stated that he knew personally the author of the book

of Matthew and that he was a eunuch. Other early Christians have

claimed that the author of John and Revelation was a eunuch. One of

the earliest attested Christian groups, the Valensians, believed that

all true Christian males needed to be castrated to ensure their

entrance into Heaven. The Skoptzy, an off-shoot of the Russian

Orthodox church practiced the castration of all male believers as late

as the early 1940s. Revelation 14:4 was the most important text for

the Skoptzy. So, the tradition has long standing."

As we can see, castration has been practiced by the Christian Church for sometime, all the way back to the beginning. There are, of course, passages that refer to celibacy as well in the Scriptures, but I feel Matthew 19:12 is meant for a different kind of celibate life, one that involves actual castration. Thanks to both of you for insights and thoughts on the matter. I wish you both the very best.

Brandon,

Jesus was a Rabbi and as such he had certain traditions he had to follow. The jews were not very keen on castration in their religion. The only thing they cut off was the forskin. Following the Rabbinical traditions, it was more likely that Jesus and Mary M. were married and had kids. If you want to be castrated for religious reasons, do it for your reasons. Don't base it on something someone else thinks happened 2000 years ago. We're not really going to know the total truth about Jesus and the apostles until we see the Lord and can ask him. As to John being a eunuch, that's anyones guess. The guys in the early church were very macho to be able to do what they did. It took great mental and physical strength to be one of Jesus' apostles, I don't know if a eunuch could do it. But probably eunuchs back then were stronger because they had to be. That's one of those things we won't know until we know. Like I've said before, people tend to make the scriptures say what they want them to say. Not what they mean. Most people who base a cult or sect on the Word, don't have the theological or scholarly education to do so. They just have some charisma that causes some people to want to follow them.

Steve

[A-1 (imported)]

I will agree with Steve.

The "established" Christian church that came to us from ancient times has had a tradition of intolerance. This includes the subjugation of women, castration of children, circumcision, both male and female, various forms of other mutiliations, intolerance, ethnic cleansing, but a strong tradition of reinforcing behaviors that force the point of procreation, while preaching that sex is sinful. It is a mixed message at best. This is especially true in light of the fact that molestation is still an issue. (http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/206 ... xsins.html) Their abortion position (http://www.hopeclinic.com/AbortionHistory.htm) has not always been what it is today.

Basing your need for castration on scripture is supposing that through the many, many translations that the folks who practiced the atrocities that I listed above did not change it for their own purposes. With the history that I have submitted above, it is more logical to conclude that religious authorities wanted to control the carnal desires of everyone else but would not control their own.

Despite you religious convictions I must say this. If God didn't want men to have balls, he wouldn't have given them to men. That is pretty much common sense, if you believe in God.

Furthermore, your brain must be used to make your choices, not a written word that has been abused in the past just to control people's sexuality.

A-1

[A-1 (imported)]

Here is some other information...

1. (http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/eunuchs.html)

2. (http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/ ... 020425.htm)

3. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm)

4. (http://epistle.us/hbarticles/sodom3.html)

5. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abstinence) 6. (http://www.experiencefestival.com/castration_cults) 7. (http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=26) 8. (http://emergencybackupdog.blogspot.com/ ... -when.html)

9. (http://www.blackplague.org/cult/sex.htm) 10. (http://www.historyofjihad.org/reconquista.html)

11. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/acm4.htm)

12. (http://www.plan-b.biz/pdf/How_Cults_Seduce.pdf)

13. (http://www.plan-b.biz/pdf/How_Cults_Seduce.pdf)

14. Castration cults (http://www.answers.com/topic/castration-cult)

15.the copy of Michelangelo's "David" installed at Caesar's Palace had to be taken down and fitted with a new porn-star schlong because the original penis-to-scrotum proportions looked so absurd to modern connoisseurs of beefcake. (http://archive.salon.com/books/review/2 ... 13/taylor/)

16. Start you own Cult- Is Castration right for you? (http://www.startyourowncult.com/start-y ... cult-.html)

17. When Castration was accepted... (http://www.circumstitions.com/Castrati.html)

18. (http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/castration/)

19. Realistic Chastity... (http://www.pureintimacy.org/gr/theology/a0000110.cfm)

20. As usual, Bush has got it backwards. If government funds should be used to promote sexual abstinence at all, those funds should go first to programs that educate priests about how to restrain their urges to have sex with the children under their care. (http://www.irregulartimes.com/abstinenceed.html)

21. Chastity & Diet... (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a06598-b024-1 ... e2340.html)

22. Abstinance...Health Hazards? (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/mg18624954.500)

23. Abstinance or DEATH! (http://www.revcom.us/a/044/suppression- ... scists.htm)

24. Fuckit on your Family... (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethi ... cover.html) So what is wrong with having them vaccinated and NOT telling them? Hmm, Not PUNITIVE enough, I guess...:shakemitk

25. Bush's Sex Fantasy... (http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature ... index.html)

26. Religious groups get AIDS money... (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... oups_x.htm)

27. MORE... (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?a ... 4976726772)

28. Total Abstinance, A New Idea...NAW!!!! (http://www.truthinheart.com/EarlyOberli ... d/pp12.htm)

Throughout history sexual control has been fostered upon humanity in various ways. Perhaps we do need to control ourselves. However, the problems ARISE when we try to control everyone else...



A-1

[Brandon86 (imported)]

I will agree with Steve.

The "established" Christian church that came to us from ancient times has had a tradition of intolerance. This includes the subjugation of women, castration of children, circumcision, both male and female, various forms of other mutiliations, intolerance, ethnic cleansing, but a strong tradition of reinforcing behaviors that force the point of procreation, while preaching that sex is sinful. It is a mixed message at best. This is especially true in light of the fact that molestation is still an issue. (http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/206 ... xsins.html) Their abortion position (http://www.hopeclinic.com/AbortionHistory.htm) has not always been what it is today.

Basing your need for castration on scripture is supposing that through the many, many translations that the folks who practiced the atrocities that I listed above did not change it for their own purposes. With the history that I have submitted above, it is more logical to conclude that religious authorities wanted to control the carnal desires of everyone else but would not control their own.

Despite you religious convictions I must say this. If God didn't want men to have balls, he wouldn't have given them to men. That is pretty much common sense, if you believe in God.

Furthermore, your brain must be used to make your choices, not a written word that has been abused in the past just to control people's sexuality.

A-1

Thank you for your post. Your first half on the history of the Church is a complex issue which I do not have the time, nor is this the place, to properly discuss. Needless to say, there are many redeeming qualities from the early Church.

Secondly, my desire for castration takes on a religious context, but remember that even without a religious reason, I'd still desire it because as I said before, it is just something I have thought about and wanted for awhile. I think I need not mention I'm going to do chemical castration first, to be on the safe side.

Peace and Blessings,

Brandon

[Brandon86 (imported)]

Their abortion position

This is something I wanted to touch on. Here are some writings from the Early Church Fathers. Please visit www.catholic.com for more info.

The Didache

"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

"The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

The Apocalypse of Peter

"And near that place I saw another strait place . . . and there sat women. . . . And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion" (The Apocalypse of Peter 25 [A.D. 137]).

Athenagoras

"What man of sound mind, therefore, will affirm, while such is our character, that we are murderers?

. . . [W]hen we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it; and not to expose an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child-murder, and on the other hand, when it has been reared to destroy it" (A Plea for the Christians 35 [A.D. 177]).

Tertullian

"In our case, a murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from the other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in its seed" (Apology 9:8 [A.D. 197]).

"Among surgeons’ tools there is a certain instrument, which is formed with a nicely-adjusted flexible frame for opening the uterus first of all and keeping it open; it is further furnished with an annular blade, by means of which the limbs [of the child] within the womb are dissected with anxious but unfaltering care; its last appendage being a blunted or covered hook, wherewith the entire fetus is extracted by a violent delivery.

"There is also [another instrument in the shape of] a copper needle or spike, by which the actual death is managed in this furtive robbery of life: They give it, from its infanticide function, the name of embruosphaktes, [meaning] "the slayer of the infant," which of course was alive. . . .

"[The doctors who performed abortions] all knew well enough that a living being had been conceived, and [they] pitied this most luckless infant state, which had first to be put to death, to escape being tortured alive" (The Soul 25 [A.D. 210]).

"Now we allow that life begins with conception because we contend that the soul also begins from conception; life taking its commencement at the same moment and place that the soul does" (ibid., 27).

"The law of Moses, indeed, punishes with due penalties the man who shall cause abortion [Ex. 21:22–24]" (ibid., 37).

Minucius Felix

"There are some [pagan] women who, by drinking medical preparations, extinguish the source of the future man in their very bowels and thus commit a parricide before they bring forth. And these things assuredly come down from the teaching of your [false] gods. . . . To us [Christians] it is not lawful either to see or hear of homicide" (Octavius 30 [A.D. 226]).

Hippolytus

"Women who were reputed to be believers began to take drugs to render themselves sterile, and to bind themselves tightly so as to expel what was being conceived, since they would not, on account of relatives and excess wealth, want to have a child by a slave or by any insignificant person. See, then, into what great impiety that lawless one has proceeded, by teaching adultery and murder at the same time!" (Refutation of All Heresies [A.D. 228]).

Council of Ancyra

"Concerning women who commit fornication, and destroy that which they have conceived, or who are employed in making drugs for abortion, a former decree excluded them until the hour of death, and to this some have assented. Nevertheless, being desirous to use somewhat greater lenity, we have ordained that they fulfill ten years [of penance], according to the prescribed degrees" (canon 21 [A.D. 314]).

Basil the Great

"Let her that procures abortion undergo ten years’ penance, whether the embryo were perfectly formed, or not" (First Canonical Letter, canon 2 [A.D. 374]).

"He that kills another with a sword, or hurls an axe at his own wife and kills her, is guilty of willful murder; not he who throws a stone at a dog, and unintentionally kills a man, or who corrects one with a rod, or scourge, in order to reform him, or who kills a man in his own defense, when he only designed to hurt him. But the man, or woman, is a murderer that gives a philtrum, if the man that takes it dies upon it; so are they who take medicines to procure abortion; and so are they who kill on the highway, and rapparees" (ibid., canon 8).

John Chrysostom

"Wherefore I beseech you, flee fornication. . . . Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit?—where there are many efforts at abortion?—where there is murder before the birth? For even the harlot you do not let continue a mere harlot, but make her a murderess also. You see how drunkenness leads to prostitution, prostitution to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather to a something even worse than murder. For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevents its being born. Why then do thou abuse the gift of God, and fight with his laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter? For with a view to drawing more money by being agreeable and an object of longing to her lovers, even this she is not backward to do, so heaping upon thy head a great pile of fire. For even if the daring deed be hers, yet the causing of it is thine" (Homilies on Romans 24 [A.D. 391]).

Jerome

"I cannot bring myself to speak of the many virgins who daily fall and are lost to the bosom of the Church, their mother. . . . Some go so far as to take potions, that they may insure barrenness, and thus murder human beings almost before their conception. Some, when they find themselves with child through their sin, use drugs to procure abortion, and when, as often happens, they die with their offspring, they enter the lower world laden with the guilt not only of adultery against Christ but also of suicide and child murder" (Letters 22:13 [A.D. 396]).

The Apostolic Constitutions

"Thou shalt not use magic. Thou shalt not use witchcraft; for he says, ‘You shall not suffer a witch to live’ [Ex. 22:18]. Thou shall not slay thy child by causing abortion, nor kill that which is begotten. . . . f it be slain, [it] shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed" (Apostolic Constitutions 7:3 [A.D. 400]).

[Slammr (imported)]

This is something I wanted to touch on. Here are some writings from the Early Church Fathers. Please visit www.catholic.com for more info.

"Thou shalt not use magic. Thou shalt not use witchcraft; for he says, ‘You shall not suffer a witch to live’ [Ex. 22:18]. Thou shall not slay thy child by causing abortion, nor kill that which is begotten. . . . f it be slain, [it] shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed" (Apostolic Constitutions 7:3 [A.D. 400]).

Ah...the church made good use of that one didn't they. Well, they showed all those witches, the ones burned at the stake. Shall we burn the abortionists, too. Are you one of those that think abortionists should be killed?

I don't like abortion. I think it's a piss poor form of birth control -- but -- not being a woman, I don't think I have the right to tell one what she should do with her body. But then, neither do I believe in your god, or in your church.

[Brandon86 (imported)]

Ah...the church made good use of that one didn't they. Well, they showed all those witches, the ones burned at the stake. Shall we burn the abortionists, too. Are you one of those that think abortionists should be killed?

I don't like abortion. I think it's a piss poor form of birth control -- but -- not being a woman, I don't think I have the right to tell one what she should do with her body. But then, neither do I believe in your god, or in your church.

As to your first paragraph, no I do not think we should kill the abortionists. You also make mention of witchcraft and the Inquisition. Here's some historical facts on the matter. The Inquisition did not kill as many people as claimed. And it was not even widespread in Europe, occurring mostly in southern France, Italy, Spain, and a few parts of the Holy Roman Empire. The total number of dead can not be fully determined, but the most reasonable figures, from unbiased sources, indicate that in Spain, for example, only a few thousand died over the course of many centuries. One estimate, based on court documents (and taking into account how many such documents were lost) estimate that 50,000 to 100,000 died. While that is many, and horrible, one can no more blame the whole Church than you can blame all Germans for Hitler. If it was all the Church's doing, then it would have occurred in all of Europe. Many of the people killed were not killed for religious reasons, it was merely an excuse used to get rid of people that someone didn't want. But the real question, what is your point? That Catholics, like all persons, sin? On behalf of the Church, guilty as charged. Or maybe you want to state that people in authority, even religious authority, can become corrupt and abuse their powers? The Church does not deny that, either.

Finally, to your second paragraph. It's not her body. Tell me how a woman can have two hearts, two brains, two nervous systems. Tell me how a woman carrying a son can have a penis.

I hope the issue of faith won't get this topic off point.

Peace and Blessings to all,

Brandon