My Reflections on the 4th of July, 2006

[Studlover (imported)]

As I sat in a Paris, France cafe while being a student in Paris, I had some reflections on July4th, Independence Day USA.

I am here for the summer to study in depth French and also as a protest to the Bush Administration and the War in Iraq. I was able to participate in a protest march part of which was "Americans Against the War in Iraq" last Sunday at the Louvre-Rivoli.

In musing about my reactions to July 4th, I remember when I was a kid how proud I was to be an American, and how many truly great things we had done in the world that showed what a generous and compassionate nation we were--not the least of which was our coming into WWII! Today I am almost ashamed of my country, and especially our current policies.

Another story in today's news about an American soldier and his comrades murdering an Iraqi family and gang raping the daughter. And yes, this isn't new on either side, but what ever happened to the simple concept of honor?

I see this country consumed with greed and avarice (Bill Gates being a noble current exception lately), raping the environment, exploiting other nations and races, buying the government that favors the rich.

Oddly, perhaps, I believe in the War on Terrorism and I think we should just reconcile ourselves that there is no such thing as personal privacy anymore and live with it as a price we pay for the intelligence gathering that we need to find and go after terrorists.

But in general, I no longer feel the patriotic pride that I used to feel about this country...and I'm quite sad about that.

************

[Blaise (imported)]

Beautiful testimony. Thank you.

[Riverwind (imported)]

I being a real flag waver tend to agree with you, it makes me sad. I can only hope that in the years to come we get back what we have lost these last few years.

River

[n3rf (imported)]

TO be PROUD and be an American. Yes that is something. And what You say does represent what we all feel about out Great Country, the USA. But what You and others are really saying, I think, is - HEADS UP You jerks - who call Yourself Americans - and get with it, since our FREEDOM of SPEECH and other tools of our DISPOSAL puts us to work to make things BETTER. I mean discuss each and all PROBLEMS loudly and distinktly and those that listen will get it and do it right this time, next time and allways. Thanks for speaking up. We got the message. No more hiding behing the Counter and hoping the problem will go away by itself. It seems that knocking the incumbent and our government is such a common PASSTIME , but it is far more than that - a signalling for WORK TO BE DONE. So that is what it is all about in the USA.

Not so in other Countries with Rulers that do not allow FREE SPEACH and OPEN DISCUSSION and who favors SUPRESSION and TREATHS and COERSION to get their way. Thanks heaven for our United States of America, and thanks for speaking up.N3RF

[A-1 (imported)]

Historically, occupying armies have raped and plundered the countries that they occupied. America is no different, except for the fact that these crimes are being made public knowledge.

Aljazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_id=11414) has ran the story and opened it up for public comments. The fact that the story was reported accurately and fairly by Aljazeera and the fact that it was reported at all indicates that democracy and free press are existing in Iraq and that the goals that were set forth at the beginning of the war are slowly starting to be realized.

According to this (http://www.blackcommentator.com/144/144 ... nce_1.html) perspective, the United States has a history of violence that dates back several centuries. The United States, having been begat in violence has survived by violence for the last 230 or so years and probably will continue to do so because of racism.

However, according to this site (http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Jan2006/chew0106.html) the cause of American violence is sexism.

Sources of discontent will continue to use this as an example of U.S. excesses. however, the fact reamins that Iraq is inching toward becoming a free and independent state where human rights will have a fighting chance to exist.

Don't forget that it is the U.S. military that is "investigating" this matter and that some news agencies (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... rnational/) are able to put it into perspective. This is war. These things happen in a war. When charges are brought the instigators will be handled appropriately.

Just keep on protesting. Sooner or later it will end. Just believe that the government in place now in Iraq is much better than that which formerly existed. Otherwise, this kind of story would not be getting out at all.

ABOVE ALL, DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE PROUD OF AMERICA. IN ANY GROUP YOU ARE BOUND TO FIND 6 - 8 CRIMINALS FOR EVERY 100,000 PEOPLE. 100,000 troops are what the U.S. has in Iraq right now. Be proud and support the ones who are honorable.

A-1

[Blaise (imported)]

I remember a quotation from Kierkegaard about people who want freedom of speech but who already have freedom of thought and don’t use it.

[BudleyBare (imported)]

Studlover,

Thanks for your postiing. Like you, I too am travelling for a while. May be back home in a few days.

Celebrated the 4th with friends, but the main topic at various times always goes back to what is happening to our country. That was the situation again last night at dinner, and was about the seventh time in as many days. If you or anyone have ideas about how to take back our country, I would be most interested.

Most of the local people (meaning non USA expatriates) that I talk with here say openly that they like the Americans, but that they just don't like the American government. Fairly universal feelings are expressed.

[Studlover (imported)]

Studlover,

Thanks for your postiing. Like you, I too am travelling for a while. May be back home in a few days.

Celebrated the 4th with friends, but the main topic at various times always goes back to what is happening to our country. That was the situation again last night at dinner, and was about the seventh time in as many days. If you or anyone have ideas about how to take back our country, I would be most interested.

Most of the local people (meaning non USA expatriates) that I talk with here say openly that they like the Americans, but that they just don't like the American government. Fairly universal feelings are expressed.

I have no idea how to take the country back. If you try, the FBI will be on your ass!

I was having an interesting conversation in French after class today. The guy asked me if I was American and where in America? I told him Texas and the first thing he said was BUSH???? Oh my!

I immediately replied I DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM. That seemed to gain his confidence.

Isn't it strange that Europeans know more about foreign affairs than Americans? And the first thing they associate is Bush. Never the Grand Canyon, the Rocky Mountains, the NY Philharmonic, but BUSH.

I am ashamed.

Studlover

[A-1 (imported)]

I have no idea how to take the country back. If you try, the FBI will be on your ass!

I was having an interesting conversation in French after class today. The guy asked me if I was American and where in America? I told him Texas and the first thing he said was BUSH???? Oh my!

I immediately replied I DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM. That seemed to gain his confidence.

Isn't it strange that Europeans know more about foreign affairs than Americans? And the first thing they associate is Bush. Never the Grand Canyon, the Rocky Mountains, the NY Philharmonic, but BUSH.

I am ashamed.

Studlover

I have no idea how to take the country back. If you try, the FBI will be on your ass!

Studlover, If I didn't know better I'd claim that you was having a paranoid fit with that statement.

Well, I told you all that if you want to get the Presidency in the hands of an individual with a perspective more like your own then find a Democrat who is moderate and support him. (Get it? Hillary will NOT work. Too much BAGgage.)

I do not consider Bush a moderate. HE is a right, way right, kind of guy. However, John Kerry could not beat him. Why? Because he is a way, way left kind of guy.

As nasty as the right has become in this country, they have alienated a great deal of common folks, like me and bunches of us here at the EA, among other places, how shall I say, more toward the mainstream of life. But they are still politically strong. To win, an appeal must be made to the common people. You know, like the Congress who voted themselves a raise, but the minimum wages have not been raised in what? 10 years at least? So, you all know how to do it. These nasty-assed folks are selfish sons-of-bitches. You know what to do...

NOW,!

Let's git 'er done!

A-1

[mrt (imported)]

As I sat in a Paris, France cafe while being a student in Paris, I had some reflections on July4th, Independence Day USA.

I am here for the summer to study in depth French and also as a protest to the Bush Administration and the War in Iraq. I was able to participate in a protest march part of which was "Americans Against the War in Iraq" last Sunday at the Louvre-Rivoli.

In musing about my reactions to July 4th, I remember when I was a kid how proud I was to be an American, and how many truly great things we had done in the world that showed what a generous and compassionate nation we were--not the least of which was our coming into WWII! Today I am almost ashamed of my country, and especially our current policies.

Another story in today's news about an American soldier and his comrades murdering an Iraqi family and gang raping the daughter. And yes, this isn't new on either side, but what ever happened to the simple concept of honor?

I see this country consumed with greed and avarice (Bill Gates being a noble current exception lately), raping the environment, exploiting other nations and races, buying the government that favors the rich.

Oddly, perhaps, I believe in the War on Terrorism and I think we should just reconcile ourselves that there is no such thing as personal privacy anymore and live with it as a price we pay for the intelligence gathering that we need to find and go after terrorists.

But in general, I no longer feel the patriotic pride that I used to feel about this country...and I'm quite sad about that.

************

I'm slow and I don't get the Hate Bush (I don't love the guy but??) crowd and I have to admit I have a real problem with people protesting the US overseas. So take thi all with a grain of salt...

First of all this is still a story. Right? The men involved. Don't they get a day in court before we sentence them and the country? And is this an act of evil people or the country (assuming its true) Do you think that with the millions of soldiers in WWII there were no crimes? Don't be silly. I read a first hand account of a paratrooper who after the war had ended was confronted by a SS man. He thought that since they both wore uniforms and fought for their countries they were the "same" and so he told them what great ideas Hitler had about the Jews etc. This paratroopers looked at each other and together they threw the SS man into the river (and he died) Terrible? Humm... Not a black and white thing maybe? Whatever. I'm sure that sexual liberties were taken with women by drunk 18 year old soldiers in a lot of Wars. I think that stating that the country is a failure because of an individuals acts is not right. If we find that its "policy" to murder familys then we have a reason to get worked up. If its the act of criminal idiots? They need to be hung, shot or tossed into the stockade for 100 years. What other country goes so far out of its way to punish its soldiers who do these things? I also happen to think that Iraq was being run by a mad man ala Hitler and that kicking him out and asserting the rule of law in that crazy area is long over due. I dunno I guess we agree on that... Don't you agree that

WWII was a good example of how well it works to practice isolationism? If we ignore Islamo "Facists" we will have an even greater battle to fight in the future.

I hate to be so disagreable but I think on the issue of Privacy we have to remember history again. There were a hundred times that the "secret" that we were able to read secret Japanese and German codes was going to be spilled for political reasons. This didn't happen by a hair! If you know how vital it was to the Military and how really close we were to being smashed at the start of the war you would realize how stupid that would have been. Today we see regular examples of this kind of security being broken and for WHAT?! To protect the rights of Terrorists?

I think if you knew how private material was really handled you would be far less upset!