Tamoxifen / Nolvadex

[SplitDik (imported)]

Hey, I've been using an estrogen competitor drug called Tamoxifen (brand name Nolvadex) for some time now. I think it may be of interest to any eunuchs who are worried about preventing female fat and breast development, loss of bone density and hot flashes.

The drug is really interesting because it acts just like estrogen in some tissues, like bones, and therefore maintains the benefits of estrogen; however, it blocks the action of estrogen in other tissues, especially fat, to prevent breast growth and female body fat distribution.

It actually very effectively REVERSES any gynomastia. In fact it is now commonly used by male bodybuilders to prevent and cure the "bitch tit" condition caused by aromatizing steroids.

In any case, I found absolutely no side effects with this drug. In fact the only documented side effect is an increase in uterine cancers for women taking it.

I suggest that many eunuchs would benefit as it would prevent the usually undesirable body shape and hot flashes, as well as preventing osteoperosis and such.

Any eunuchs here who are taking or have tried tamoxifen? If so, please share your experiences.

[Testman (imported)]

I've been waiting for one of you guys to stumble upon this.

I have used this before and know many in the bodybuilding community who has been for a number of years. It's pretty safe, though some speculate there can be an increased chance of blood clots because, as you say, some cells recognize this as estrogen and that's one side effect of estrogen. But for preventing gyno, this stuff is the best there is and plus it's affordable.

If a eunuch (who is not using testosterone) wanted to use this for gyno prevention, I imagine he wouldn't need all that much as this stuff works by competing with estrogen at the estrogen receptor sites. So if your estrogen is lower than usual, the dose of tamoxifen wouldn't need to be all that high. Many bodybuilders notice it does it's job at 10mg per day and keep in mind, these guys have boat loads of estrogen in them from the aromatising testosterone they use at high doses.

[kristoff]

Inasmuch as this is also a drug used to treat breast cancer, as I understand, isnt there some kind of adverse impact involved there for others....?

Just a point of curiosity

[SplitDik (imported)]

It is used to treat breast cancer in the same way that castration drugs like Lupron and stuff are used for prostate cancer. Some cancers are estrogen-driven and others are androgen-driven. Tamoxifen is bascially a chemical castration drug for women.

For young women, there are several adverse effects because you are basically forcing them to enter menopause. Plus there is a noted increased risk of uterine cancers. But for men there is pretty much no side effect known, except possibly lower libido (oh no!). Note that tamoxifen actually helps cure Peyronie's disease as well, plus is prescribed for men with certain types of infertility.

This does not mean it is totally safe for everyone, but means that it is not particularly different than the other chemical castration drugs being used by those on this forum.

[hkeunuch (imported)]

Following this thread, I did some research on the internet and did find that many bodybuilders use Tamoxifen.

But a few websites for bodybuilders indicated that one side benefits (for bodybuilders who wanted more testosterone) is that Tamoxifen also stimulates higher testosterone production from the testes?! If so, I wonder if it might offset some of the effects that of my Androcur regiment to distinquish testosterone production?

Are there any chemical eunuchs who have supplemented their antiandrogen with Tamoxifen? What were the results?

[Testman (imported)]

The increase in testosterone levels that happen as a result of taking Tamoxifen, is because part of the way the body regulates testosterone levels is by how much estrogen you have. (Some of your natural testosterone converts to estrogen and the pituitary gland senses estrogen and therefore regulates how much testosterone to make. This is why depo-provera works, basically. So if one takes Tamoxifen, their pituitary gland senses less estrogen and slightly increase it's testosterone production. But if one was lacking testicles and/or was also on Depo-Provera, I wonder if there would be an increase at all. Side note: I have used Tamoxifen and though there is supposed to be an increase in testosterone, instead I noticed a decrease in sex drive. This is probably because to some extent, estrogen is a sex hormone itself.

[hkeunuch (imported)]

Thanks, Testman, for sharing your experience. I did more research and found that Tamoxifen has been paired with people on antiandrogen for prostate cancer to reduce / reverse gynomastia and osteoporosis.

From my Internet research, I have also come across conflicting results/claims:

Some websites, especially those related to bodybuilders, saying Tamoxifen increases production of testosterone level but did not explain further about how much of an increase or the net effects,

Other studies, mostly medical websites, saying it caused a drop in libido and erections, as you have experienced.

One study said that for penis and testes that have atrophied via antiandrogen or castration, Tamoxifen did not further affect the size of the penis or testes one way or the other.

The only risk does seem to be clotting, like most other estrogens.

Seems like a very promising supplement to my antiandrogen regiment to turn me into a chemical eunuch without the feminizing effects or risk of osteoporosis.

[LCP1234 (imported)]

I am a eunuch, and I take 'T' to keep me hard and muscular. I like sex. Nolvadex seems to increase my sex drive a very much. When I combine the three :dong:AndroGel & Nolvadex (and dhea) I can't get sex off of my mind. I start to visualize sex acts and get rock hard boners often. Mostly it effects my sex drive by increasing it.

[unencumbered (imported)]

I have been taking Tamonifen, with Siterone, for over a year and a half to prevent breast growth. It seems to work for me because I don't have any. I was taking 20mg daily but reduced it to 10mg and I see no change. I've read that it helps to combat osteoporosis. I've also read that it helps to reduce sex drive, even in men.

[Vpapor81 (imported)]

Is there anything else besides Nolvadex I wasnt able to tolerate it very well.