Late onset (yet always there)

[bryan (imported)]

Hi all,

As July 15th nears, have started praying earnestly for God to reveal His will to me. If not dead by then, will need a new way to live. The dysphoria has not diminshed with the passage of time. Would like to fulfill my role as husband and parent, but present life is not sustainable.

Still have a hard time believing gender identity could change so dramatically, so I'm inclined to believe I have been female all along. Q: What happens when you put a female spirit -- a docile one at that -- in a male body and bring them up as a boy? A: They think they are a boy! That is, until the cracks start appearing.

My present state of mind is similar to Jennifer Ann Burnett's leading up to her decision to transition (written from the Divine perspective):

http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/

answer.html

It seemed to her that I had withdrawn my daily grace to continue living the masculine role I had asked her to resume so long ago. She found it increasingly difficult to get up every morning and she longed for death rather than to live so onerous a life. She began "passively" trying to kill herself, overeating and ballooning up to 236 lbs on her 68" frame. Her blood pressure and cholesterol soared. But she did not care, for she just wanted her life to end and be set free from the daily torture of trying to be someone she was not.

That Fall, on September 29th, during one of her repeated prayers to Me to just take her life, even as she contemplated running her truck into the freeway abutment to "gracefully" exit this world (in a manner that others would assume was an accident), I came to her in My overwhelming Presence. In the midst of her agitation and hopelessness, I spoke the words that she had so longed to hear but never thought would come, "Jennifer, it is your time".

Not sure what answer I'm looking for. Death would be convenient. Divorce would be sad. Transition is a scary thought. But my present mode of living is a mockery of life.

Occurred to me I haven't been able to picture myself growing old as a man for quite some time now.

While sitting here at my desk listening to music, just burst into tears realizing who/what I am (TS). "Your life as you have known it is no longer an option. You are a confused female married to a straight female. You have to figure out a way to survive."

Decided to start taking DHEA and 5-HTP again, for tears are coming too easily. (Sleep has also been poor because of emotional upheaval.) I don't mind tears, but they would betray me. Wife would realize I'm not "cured." As it is, she noticed how stuffy I sounded over the weekend.

Terri

ADDENDUM (rant?): Why is present living so hard?

1. Would like to tell son about gender issues, but that is verboten -- immediate grounds for divorce.

2. I feel like an actor on the rare occasions when wife and I have sex. "What am I doing?!" My orientation has changed to a degree. I don't initiate love-making because "I have that crappy equipment down there" and refuse to look at it erect.

3. Happily feeling normal (i.e., female) until catching sight of some part of my body which contradicts such feelings: armpit hair, leg hair, etc.

4. The unending obsession with gender. One cannot escape gender, so when one has problems with it, one's entire life is affected.

5. Having to keep all of this secret -- even from my wife.

6. Although medications help some aspects, I end up feeling dead emotionally, simply going thru the motions.

7. Hopelessness: the only known cure (i.e., transition) is devastating to everything dear. This opening post on this thread cited the hopelessness for sufferers of GID, including Christians. That's where I was in September 2005 and I'm there today.

There's also the pain of things which can't be changed:

1. Never got to be a mother.

2. Missing the childhood I could have had as a girl.

3. Sadness/pathos of GID: mismatched mind and body -- an emotional landmine lurking to destroy one's life at some point. (Better if one can discover it before marriage.)

4. All of the various "inappropriate" longings I fought against throughout my life.

I would never have believed it could be this painful and out of one's control if it hadn't happened to me.

[lindaleah (imported)]

Dear Terri

Please Please do not do anything to hurt yourself. Promise me you will not do anything to hurt yourself. This will sound a little contradictory but Your son needs you (even if he turns against his new mom [you sweetie] now! He will still need you ALIVE. Think of the quilt he would have (and he would blame himself if anything happed to you)

Now the contradiction: YOU MUST DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU WITH THE LEAST DAMAGE TO ALL CONCERNED. Think about you not being there (i.e. death) Way to much damage. Leaving the relationship? Not so much damage. You may not think so now but the future has so much potential. Just think of all the fun and enjoyment you would miss being Terri full time. I can see you dancing, playing piano watching a sunset meeting a lot of people like us who understand the pain we've been through. Wouldn’t happen if you aren't here.

I could dump a few clichés here but the bottom line is things can AND DO change. NOTHING stays the same. I too was in a similar situation as you and cannot believe how great things are now. (It took a long time and a lot of patients).

Not to piss off all the religious fanatics out there but it sounds like it is causing you a lot of pain. I have been an agnostic for a very long time and can't believe all the crap and brainwashing that goes on in the name of religion. I could go on for hours here but the bottom line is you have to be you and quit been a sheep for any to control. Like family, church and society

Is the psychologist you are going to very understanding of GID? If not run. I have been to many counselors over the years and find only one in ten know how to help the rest could harm you. If you live in the northern Ca bay area I highly recommend finding one sensitive to GID issues. I could recommend Anne Vitale (check out online avitale.com).

WORTH REPEATING

As far as discovering whether a person is TV or TS is concerned, I would say that nobody but the individual herself can make that decision, and that even excludes doctors and therapists. Those people can only guide a person toward what is already inside them.

As far as divorce goes IT IS BETTER TO COME FROM A BROKEN HOME THAN TO LIVE IN ONE. Your home is broken.

MUCH LOVE AND I CARE

Lindaleah

[bryan (imported)]

Lindaleah,

Thank you so much for your heartfelt, well-thought-out advice. You've given me plenty to think about.

As far as divorce goes IT IS BETTER TO COME FROM A BROKEN HOME THAN TO LIVE IN ONE. Your home is broken.

Good point. Our home is broken. It's not showing yet, but it will.

Promise me you will not do anything to hurt yourself.

I promise. If religion weren't enough, near-death experiences for suicide attempts are universally bad. The idea of suicide comes to mind, but is rejected each time. If I die early, it will from an answer to prayer, not my own hand.

[Your son] will still need you ALIVE.

I ask myself which is better: a flaky, out-of-town father who's an embarrassment (assuming worst case) or a warm, increasingly-hazy, unblemished memory.

YOU MUST DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU WITH THE LEAST DAMAGE TO ALL CONCERNED.

Wise advice. I'll use it.

Not to piss off all the religious fanatics out there...

I'm one myself. Oh, the irony! Bad things like TSism aren't supposed to happen to nice, neat lives.[/SARCASM off]

When I first joined EA, I put myself in the shoes of others, agonizing over the morality of transitioning -- literally losing sleep over the matter -- little realizing I would face the same dilemma later on. I don't judge others in the least, but all I've come up with is "transition is better than suicide." Part of the problem is TSism is so subjective. Doctors, pastors, and spouses can't measure the pain, only the outward disturbances: lower productivity, depression, etc. Even the TS wonders: How bad is it, relatively-speaking? Am I just being weak-willed, or is this really big-league stuff? Since religious TS's have to settle religious issues before transition, I've got more thinking/praying to do. As it is, I work for a mission organization and my job will be toast with either divorce or transition. (Suppose I'd have to change jobs anyway to bring in more money.)

Religion adds another dimension to possible damage. If I were to transition, I would be universally badmouthed in this area. Yet, if my boy gets to spend any time with me, he would see the same Scripture-loving soul he knew previously. The dissonance could easily breed cynicism and cause him to reject religion.

Is the psychologist you are going to very understanding of GID?

Don't know but will look into it. Yes, I don't need a browbeating.

Thanks much,

Terri

[lindaleah (imported)]

Dear Terri

I'm glad to hear you do not plan to harm yourself. I know it is a lot more complicated with a young child in the picture. You could lose (worst case) the visitation with him.

I don't know if this will help but I came out to my wife about 15 years ago and she was not accepting at the time even though our kids(3 of them) were adults and out of the house. I never gave up and she found the one in ten counselors that were helpful. With my permission she discussed my transgenderism her counselor and the counselor said she didn't think it should be a problem and said it was a brain wiring and I wouldn't change. (HOW TRUE) since then my wife has become very accepting. Still at times it is hard for her but getting easier. Worst problem now is WHAT WILL OTHERS THINK?

One of the things we did for a few years that might work for you is to have time to dress. My wife would call before she came home from whatever so I could go back to drab (bummer never long enough) but did alleviate some of the pain. Also have worn feminine undergarments under the male cloths most of the time last 15 years. In the mean time maybe you could look for good counselors?

One more thing my wife was raised Christian Scientist and was very dedicated until about 25 year ago when our kids were young she realized the stupidity of letting kids die of appendicitis or any of the diseases that are readily curable. When you put most religions to the real scientific test (I know all but yours. That’s what they all believe by the brainwashing they've received) they fail. My personal belief is that religions are the root of most evil. If you look at the wars over time they are religious fanatics pushing their brand of religion. Check out Iraq, Ireland, America (yes it happens here but not so much as in other countries) (the list goes on and on) two factions of similar religions killing each other. HOW DUMB CAN WE BE?????

Part of the religious message I hear is ::: I believe in peace, love, tranquility, the golden rule and love of my fellow man but if you don't believe as I do I got to kill you.

Sorry to be such a downer on religion as there are some who do a lot of very good things and help a lot of people but I believe the same thing can be (and has been) accomplished without religion.

I do believe in spirituality and perhaps a higher power just not anything connected to humans

If you can get a copy of Anthony Robbins "Personal Power” or "Get the edge" I highly recommend it. And he is somewhat religious and mentions it in the presentations. So perhaps you could stay on that path. The program has probably done more for getting me to where I am than anything else. (I just ignore the religiosity) you of course can just ignore my anti religiosity.

Now I can get off my soap box.

Lindaleah

[lindaleah (imported)]

PS my point is there is a lot of pain caused in the name of religion.

Lindaleah

[Leona Lee (imported)]

Hi! Lest you be reborn again with a spirit of God, things of God are as foolishness. If we are Born again of the Holy Spirit and he lives with-in us we will be miserable till we submit to his/Christ's will. This message is to all that accept it and I hope that it will not be deleted. Whether it is or is not, its O.K., Leona/ Ed We all have to do what we think is right. All the Best

[bryan (imported)]

Dear Leona/Ed,

Your post can stay as far as I'm concerned.

If we are b

orn again of the Holy Spirit and he lives within us we will be miserable till we submit to his/Christ's will.

"A man's spirit sustains him in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear?" (Proverbs 18:14)

I'll admit I'm born again, miserable, and honestly searching for God's will. Living out what would seem to be His will makes me long for death -- so something is amiss. I believe part of the issue is determining one's gender identity. If the answer comes up "female," that rocks the boat and can't help but impact one's marriage.

Prior to becoming Christian at age 30, I had many perversions. Of all the perversions there are, I probably had 70% of them. In all that time, I never had any sexual interest in a male.* And the perversions are gone. However, when my wife cuddles on top of me, I hug tight and imagine she is a male and me a female. On the rare occasions when we've had sex recently, it has a lesbian-ish feel and I do as little as necessary. (Great partner, aren't I?) So just what is the righteous thing to do?

(Sorry for the detail above but it seems necessary under the circumstances.)

* However, there were a few occasions where I recall having a warm secure/protected feeling while standing next to tall male friends. Some of the buried TSism leaking out?

Let me ask: Do you think some people are genuinely cross-gendered, or would you say "male body, therefore male brain?" The answer to that will determine one's religious response. If cross-gendering occurs, it would seem cruel to consign the patient to their wrong-sex body even after the problem is discovered and found to cause substantial grief.

I'm not suggesting we take an "in-your-face transition is American as apple pie" attitude. In the OT, some sins earned banishment/exile. I've come to see OT banishment as a blessing. The behavior wasn't serious enough to earn death, but it wasn't model behavior either (nor was there a remedy necessarily) and would cause problems for all concerned if the guilty party remained. So exile was good for the community and good for the exiled. I fully accept that my TSism may lead to banishment (not that I have a choice regarding gender identity).

Another thing: Transition isn't the only option to weigh against conscience. There are inbetween states, such as a female body in a male presentation. I've been checking conscience for things like hair removal, estrogen, and penectomy and don't have a problem with these in themselves. (However, it would spell disaster for the marriage, so that becomes a factor.) Or is it better for me to become an unpredictable, emotional wreck? That is the direction I'm going. When mother-in-law found out about my death wish 6 weeks ago thru my wife, she immediately became concerned: "He will be a danger on the road! He may swerve into oncoming traffic with little 'jimmy' in the car!" Just how stressed do we allow a human to become? Until they become a possible risk to others, or do they have to become a certified danger?

With love and respect for who you are,

Terri

[lindaleah (imported)]

Dear Terri

You can recite religious babble till your blue in face but what everyone has to do is get real. QUIT letting people brainwash you. That is what (al quida sp?) does. If your idea of god or higher power or whatever is good how come he allows so much pain????

And if you’re supposed to be male or female how do explain intersexed people.

People don't wake up one morning and say I guess I'll be gay or TG or ??? and know they will have pain because of it. It is what they are. IT IS WHO WE ARE.

There is a spectrum of people with brain wiring from full male to full female and everything in between. THIS IS REAL. You have to seek you own destiny and become who you really are. What right does your significant other or family or society or religious brainwashers have to tell you what you are to be??? Maybe you should tell them what they should be??? MORE ACCEPTING??? MORE LOVING??? MORE EDUCATED ABOUT TRANSGENDER ISSUES???

I care

Lindaleah

[plix (imported)]

I agree with Leona that only when you are in tune with God can you understand the things of Him. But not everyone is meant to know God at any given point. Some people have to come to Him in their own time, and many will not ever come to Him in this lifetime.

As far as religious debates are concerned, I don't see much point to them as I learned long ago that neither side is going to change the other's mind. Some do well with God, others do well without Him. If each side could learn to accept this fact, we would all be so much better off.

I too have had some serious spiritual conflicts with transition, though they were not my primary reasons for abandoning transition. All I can figure out is that God has a plan for each of our lives and we can't always know what exactly that plan consists of.

I do know that if transition were not in God's plan for you and you went ahead with it anyway, he would love and accept you just the same. He never turns anyone away no matter what they have done. That's the essence of unconditional love. He loves you and nothing you do or do not do can change that.

[bryan (imported)]

Hi Lindaleah,

If your idea of god or higher power or whatever is good,

how come he allows so much pain?

People have been asking this kind of question for eons. Any attempt at an answer would sound trite, so I'll just respond with a recent insight. All I know is He took the risk of making sentient creatures who could: (1) critique Him and His works, and (2) choose to reject Him. Imagine how He may have felt during creation week: "I hope they like it." I respect Him for the risk He took.

And if you’re supposed to be male or female how do explain intersexed people?

True. Intersex condition (and other birth defects) are a counterexample for the "God-does-not-make-mistakes" crowd. (Mistakes happen, but I wouldn't blame them on God.) Jennifer Ann Burnett has a nice essay over at Grace and Lace ([quote="bryan (imp

orted)" time=1127814420]
http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/mistakes.html

) on this very issue.

* * *

Hi Plix,

(Congratulations to you and Ken, b
[/quote]
y the way!)

As far as religious debates are concerned, I don't see much point to them as I learned long ago that neither side is going to change the other's mind.

So true!

* * *

Hi all,

Good days occur after all. Was at a children's water party yesterday. Love playing with children, and gender issues didn't interfere.

Today hasn't gone so well. My son was mad about something and wrote a short note, calling me "junk" in it. Wouldn't have stung except that's how I feel about myself these days. Started crying in front of him (and composure was unstable afterward as well).

Starting to think wife and I may have to separate. I'm just too flaky due to GID.

Been doing more reading at Grace and Lace. This entry from "Jane" struck a chord:

http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/

guilt.html

I was away last week, for my mother-in-law's funeral. Because of her family, I was in "guy" mode for several days. I take an anti-depressive, but I was so down. I lay on the couch and was crying. My spouse came and held my hand and asked why I was so sad. Why? Because I wanted so much to be a real husband, a real son-in-law, a real farmer... but I knew I couldn't be. Maybe for a day or so, but any longer was just so hard. I knew I couldn't be 'him' for very long. And that time has gotten shorter and shorter.

Sometimes I think I should just change my name back and return to the farm full time. We have SO many loving caring friends there. But while on the couch I clearly realized that I could never ever do that if I wanted to live. I got so depressed that I saw death as a solution. I knew then that I can NEVER be 'him' again, at least for more than an day or two.

And I realized that I felt so sad at this. I cannot be the person I want to be. I feel guilty that I cannot be the person that I promised I was when we said our marriage vows. I cannot be the person that our friends and church family had seen for the past years. That person is gone and can no longer live. He can only come for short visits at best.

I grieve for this person I once knew. I feel guilty that I cannot keep the promises I have made. That's why it's so hard.

When I proposed to my current wife, I said, "Divorce won't even be considered as an option." I understand and share Jane's sadness. The person I used to be is gone, and the person I am now is unable to live up to the old person's vows.

Terri