A "Christian" view of Katrina

Patient (imported)
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

Post by Patient (imported) »

Slammr (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:46 pm Why would one wish to believe in so petty a god .
. .They don't consider him petty.

There seem to be many people in this world who want, above all else, to believe that they have an advantage over other people. To such people an omnipotent god who rewards the just and punishes the unjust is tremendously attractive as long as they can manipulate the rules to assure themselves that they are among the just. And to their small minds, if they are just then anyone who is different from them must be unjust and deserving of condemnation and punishment. That belief allows them to feel favored and therefore safe.

Few of these people develop the ability to think things through. They confuse remembering with thinking. They need simple rules which they can easily recall, such as "We are good so those who are not like us are bad."

Here is an example of the depth of their reasoning: An officer of a Fundamentalist church, on hearing a statement he considered heretical, exclaimed "If Jesus Christ was alive today He'd turn over in His grave to hear you say a thing like that!"

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JesusA (imported)
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

Post by JesusA (imported) »

Here is a response to the disaster that I consider to be Christian (without the quotation marks). I think that this is one that our friends OldSoftee, Sag111, Patient, and others can agree with:

"The Rest of the Goddamn Nation"

Jeff Sharlet

The Revealer: A Daily Review of Religion and the Press

(Center for Religion and the Media, New York University)

02 September 2005

Those aren't the words of a starving prisoner of the New Orleans Superdome, radicalized by the realization that he or she may well die for lack of a school bus. They're the words of Col. Terry Ebert, director of Homeland Security for New Orleans. FEMA's response -- or lack thereof -- he told The New York Times, has been "criminal."

Also notably lacking in the response to this disaster are suggestions that Katrina is a punishment sent by God. When the tsunami struck Asia, such notions came from across the spectrum, but most pungently from Christian conservatives who noted that Aceh, an "exporter of radical Islam," as National Association of Evangelicals president Ted Haggard put it, had been hardest hit. Such neanderthal theology apparently does not apply to the U.S.

Rather, the God invoked most often now is the distant, inscrutable deity responsible for other no-fault acts such as earthquakes and tornadoes. The "acts" of this God are not willful so much as "natural" -- hence the rise of the term "natural disaster" in the late 19th century. "The concept of an act of God implied that something was wrong," writes scholar Ted Steinberg in an important book called Acts of God: An Unnatural History of Natural Disaster in America, "that people had sinned and must now pay for their errors. But the idea of natural disaster may have implicitly suggested the reverse, that something was right, that the prevailing system of social and economic relations was functioning just fine."

Indeed. The cavalry -- or, in this case, the shock troops -- are on their way to protect those economic relations. Three hundred troops directly from Iraq have landed in the city, and "they have M-16s, and they're locked and loaded," blusters Louisiana Governor Blanco. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so if necessary, and I expect they will."

In addition to bullets, the rescuers are bringing Bibles. Crates of them reportedly await refugees in Houston, and FEMA has listed Pat Robertson's "Operation Blessing" as a suitable destination for donations.

But if this is a religion story, it's not about an act of God or the banal use and abuse of the Bible as substitute aid for people dying of literal thirst; it's about sin. And no vague, blustery "pride of man" stories about ill-preparedness or mistakes by the Army Corps of Engineers will address the original sin of this event. We need theologically-charged, morally outraged, investigative historical reporting to tell us why and how the dead of New Orleans died, and when their killers -- not Katrina, but the developers and politicians and patricians who are now far from the city -- began the killing. It wasn't Monday, and it wasn't last week. We need journalists, not just historians, to look deeper into the American mythologies of race and money, "personal responsibility" and real responsibility. This isn't a religion story because God acted, but because people acted. It's not about what they didn't do, it's about what they did do, under the cover of civic development and urban renewal and faith-based initiatives that systematically eradicate the possibility of real, systemic response to a crisis that is more than a matter of individual souls.

The root of the word "religion," "religare," tells us what kind of religion story can be reported from the Superdome. Religare means "ties that bind." Those should be bonds of community. But in New Orleans -- and in every other poverty-stricken city in America -- they're chains.

http://www.therevealer.org/archives/timely_002068.php
docs (imported)
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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I am so GD'ed sick of these so called "Christians". Like that nut in Kentucky who claims to lead a church (himself. his wife, and three kids) He ranted and raved against homosexuals and what really ticks me off is that the media immediately picks up this garbage and publishes it. That immediately adds credence to his story and jerks in other states pick up on it. I think I will start my own version of Christianity: Only sinners may apply; only the poor can apply; only the meak and the weak can apply; only those who pray in his closet may apply,only those who practise the Golden Rule may apply. Do you think the Media will highlight this? It won;t sell papers and it will never appear on TV.
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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JesusA (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:03 am In addition to bullets, the rescuers are bringing Bibles. Crates of them reportedly await refugees in Houston, and FEMA has listed Pat Robertson's "Operation Blessing" as a suitable destination for donations.

I guess they can always eat the pages of the Bible for the fiber content.

Pat Robertson - what a dumbass.
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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docs (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:44 am I am so GD'ed sick of these so called "Christians". Like that nut in Kentucky who claims to lead a church (himself. his wife, and three kids) He ranted and raved against homosexuals and what really ticks me off is that the media immediately picks up this garbage and publishes it. That immediately adds credence to his story and jerks in other states pick up on it. I think I will start my own version of Christianity: Only sinners may apply; only the poor can apply; only the meak and the weak can apply; only those who pray in his closet may apply,only those who practise the Golden Rule may apply. Do you think the Media will highlight this? It won;t sell papers and it will never appear on TV.

Docs,

The real tragedy is that many of these old HORN DOGS might have had Gay sex by now by now but they have not yet ran out of daughters, minor nieces, minor female babysitting relations and minor female cousins.

Look at it this way. If YOU were his wife would YOU want to have sex with him?

KENTUCKY... (yeah!) :dong:

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kb57z (imported)
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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JesusA (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:22 pm I was very careful to put "Christian" in quotation marks to start this thread. I am quoting people who claim the title for themselves, not ones whom I would so label.

While this Jesus may be a Buddhist, I know many people who are true Christians, people for whom LOVE, comfort, and understanding are crucial to their faith. We see them often on the Archive, and they are to be treasured.

I suspect that the distinction that you are making is that a "Christian-in-quotation-marks" is someone who has made God in his own image....
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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kb57z (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:23 am I suspect that the distinction that you are making is that a "Christian-in-quotation-marks" is someone who has made God in his own image....
That is truly profound. That is so profound that I wish I had said it.

But you need not weep for me, for I most assuredly will say it.

I plagiarize only the best sources.

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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Because of a private conversation I wish to teach a lesson here.

I know of a woman. She is an old woman now. She is a survivor of the Mengle "Twins" (http://www.heart7.net/mengeles-twins.htm) experiments in Auschwitz.

She says...

"there is no REVENGE, there is no JUSTICE...there is only FORGIVENESS."

Consider...

Perhaps there is a reason why God has chosen the Jew.

Perhaps the FUNDAMETALISTS have to learn that God prefers to forgive rather that to condemn.

HE says...(paraphrased)...although your sins be as scarlet, I will make them as white as the new fallen snow...

How Christians are to conduct themselves regarding FOREGIVENESS (http://christianity.about.com/od/practi ... ndtime.htm) may found here. (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/dojustice/j014.html)

Justice is fleeting and self-fufilling if we seek it for ourselves instead of for God. (http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/dojus ... stice.html)

http://www.vengeanceismine.org/ Tells of Vengeance.

Maybe they should consider the vengeance (http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa057.htm) that God may hold for them because of their works...

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Blaise (imported)
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

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Uncle Flo (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:23 pm A barge tow on the upper Mississippi is limited to 15 barges (as a general rule) because that is the most that can be locked through in two operations. Fifteen barges would be on the small side for the lower river. Thirty barge tows are not unusual. I believe that the record is upwards of sixty barges with a single tow boat. Most barges are what is known as a "standard jumbo" hopper barge. The dimensions of a standard jumbo are 12 feet deep x 30 feet wide x 200 feet long with a rated cargo capacity of 1200 tons. It would be an unusual event, indeed, for a run away to be able to breach a levy. In fact, I have no personal knowledge of it at all. Shipping bulk cargo by water is so much less expensive than shipping by truck that some of the New Orleans cargos destined for the central U.S. are being diverted to the Great Lakes rather than to other ocean ports from where they would have to continue by long overland routes. --FLO--

Thank you for that information. From the window where I have worked for several years, long trains of barges pass daily. The river is a great way to ship cargo. I am not certain what happened at the 17th Street Canel. I do not think that it is a shipping canel. The industrial canel, of course, is a major water course.
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Re: A "Christian" view of Katrina

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Blaise (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:33 pm Thank you for that information. From the window where I have worked for several years, long trains of barges pass daily. The river is a great way to ship cargo. I am not certain what happened at the 17th Street Canel. I do not think that it is a shipping canel. The industrial canel, of course, is a major water course.

There is a record of what a barge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bayou_ ... n_disaster) can do. I think that they could take a levee out, especially under the right conditions.

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