Castrating Boys And Adolescents

[hikerlad (imported)]

I wish that I had been castrated at an early age rather than as an adult. I really wanted to be castrated at 9 and asked and had some school friends try to do so but we did not know how. We tried to squeeze them to destroy them but could not do so. I never wanted my nuts then or later but did not get castrated til late 30's. It has been wonderful but could have been better if done back then.

Like Boots, I also thought abt it at an early age but cldnt do anything abt it.

[John W. (imported)]

I agree with YankeeClipper, as a now middle-aged eunuchoid (non-functioning testicles), still having a soprano voice and singing, mostly in a church choir, and never having taken testosterone. (Moreschi a.k.a. Jennie with whom I have spoken over the telephone has heard my speaking voice).

If a prepubertal boy wants ernestly to be castrated either to preserve his singing voice, or simply because he considers that so-called 'normal" adult male secondary sexual characteristics are a most terrible disfigurement (as I do), then let him have it, in my view. To respect the wishes of transsexual children, of whom boys wanting to be castrated are a subclass, and also hermaphrodite/intersexual and eunuch children, I advocate the abolition of any age of consent for either obtaining or refusing medical treatment, subject only to the condition that the child has been properly informed and is fully aware of the consequences. A satisfactory compromise may be for them to take androgen-blockers and gonadotropin-blockers, to delay puberty until they are in a better position to reaffirm their wishes, which must be respected. The only exception should be for immediately life-threatening or severely disabling pathological (diseased) conditions.

I will be contacting YankeeClipper off-line (or he may contact me first), as I have this month been in contact with a 15-year-old castrato boy soprano named Matthew, in a certain city in southwest England, who sings in a choir and has recently been having singing lessons. He was born without testicles, and does not want to take testosterone, a decision which his mother and stepfather support. I would like to put him in contact with the 15-year-old one named Tim in the cathedral choir in Wales, for peer support.

I will also be replying in the Castrating Minors thread.

[Don (imported)]

As a happy, middle-aged eunuch who knew he wanted to be neutered at an early age, I wish I had the opportunity to be castrated before puberty. Or, failing that, the opportunity to take androgen-blockers until I was 18 and could decide to be castrated.

I never wanted body hair or a deep voice or an adult-sized penis. I also sang soprano in the children's choir, and enjoyed having a high singing voice. Not long after puberty, my voice deepened into a baritone, which was tremendously disappointing to me. It just didn't sound like my voice anymore. I continued singing through junior high, but gave it up afterwards because singing the men's parts wasn't interesting to me.

[peter1963 (imported)]

I also wish that

someone had castrated me before puberty...

[permaboy (imported)]

(restoration from originator's backup file)

I also wish that

someone had castrated me before

or during puberty. Best if my dearest papa did it for me timely. He was a luminous surgeon in one of the South Manchuria Railway Company Hospital, didn't back from Manchuria even when WW2 has been far over. I am still longing for he is comming back, for nearly 60 years, to operate me as he once promised he will do it for me soon, to make me a best boy. I thought he will stop me to get aged and adultated, though retrospectively I guess he might have said only that he will circumcize me, ----- with his own hand at home. The deepest core of my heart stopped to go further since at that moment me being 12 years old, although eventually I got Ph.D., happily married and made another best boy, enjoying professorship in country-side university for long time, and, etc. etc.. Guess my age, dear kindest colleagues, and thanks 100% reading my short message here.

[thefraj (imported)]

Controvercial and awesome thread! Obviously it's probably dangerous and controvercial to make sweeping statements about castrating children. But - knowing now what I know - it would have been wonderful to not have gone through puberty.

As I've written in my sort of biographical-ish thread, the self-harm began in puberty when I had trouble dealing with what was happening to my body and the feelings and urges I never identified with.

And I like Skoptzikovs comment! Although I'm not really a woman, I'm definitely not a man. Hehe, being called "Ma'am" may not be quite on the money, but it's certainly closer than "Mister" or some term like that. Much of what he wrote is so much like my life

And, like Philip1 said, it would have been so nice to be done when I first started feeling something was "off" (about age 8). Most of all, it would be nice to not have so much hair, to have a nicer voice that is softer and more pleasing sounding (as I think I've mentioned in another thread). I think those are the two attributes I miss having not been castrated before puberty.

Just my two-pennith

[Paolo]

It's interesting to note how many of us say this now - looking back as rational adults.

My own fascination with castration began around age 11. I recall the survey says - 12, but that's close enough.

I remember telling this "great idea" to two of my friends then. That wasn't a good idea. Children can be extremely cruel to one another. They'll pick on someone over anything - glasses, teeth, ears, etc. You can imagine the heyday that these "friends" had with idea that one of the local group didn't want his balls anymore.

It all goes back to children being allowed to make their own decisions. This is the premise of a story I'm working on currently - at what age can a child be allowed to make such momentous decisions? And what can the outcome be?

You can almost (almost) relate this to the decision of allowing a nine year old to get his head shaved and his ears pierced. Do you let a 14 year old get his tongue pierced? But hair grows back, and earrings come out. Something like castration is forever.

Looking back, and with five examples of immature decision making power following me around, I still have to stand by the notion that children are not capable of understanding the long-term consequences of something like castration and cannot be allowed - even if it were possible to obtain - to make their own decision in this matter.

[Falcon (imported)]

There's a basic paradox here, of course. Seeing my life in retrospect (I'm past 50) I can appreciate that I would have been a more productive, better educated, saner person if I had not spent so much time chasing sex. So yes, neutering young would have been a good thing for me. However, had it happened, I am sure I would have spent the last forty years thinking about all I was missing sexually.

Terry

[YankeeClipper (imported)]

It is long past time to restart this thread. This topic will remain important and vital for the foreseeable future. I hope this thread does not wither away as quickly as it had before, but, if it does, I'll just restart it again .

Current medical updates (though some do come from prior posts here):

UK has, in at least one case, provided androgen blockers for an MtF boy at age 10 and provided by the NHS. That was in 2005, so I suspect that the program has been expanded since then.

Canada provides androgen and estrogen blocker for MtF and FtM children starting at age 12. I think though with puberty starting earlier now, that may be to late in some cases.

*** NEWS ***

Within the past month or so as I write this, a Doctor at The Children's Hospital in Boston has now chosen to specialize exclusively in Gender Diasphora (sp?) in children, and will prescribe androgen and estrogen blocker for MtF and FtM children starting at the age of 8.

He finds that most of his patients are brought in by parents that have come to realize that their child has an issue of this type. Few of the parents come in expecting him to have Johnny behave as a boy should, but why he'd rather be a girl, and vice-versa.

NOW, If we can get the Psychiatrists and Psychologists to recognize that a boy that wants to remain a boy (or just slightly less so, by two bits) does indeed fit the Gender Diasphora (sp?) model. And good luck in getting the DSM-IV updated. If anyone here knows what the procedures the are to get it corrected/updated, there many future boys out there that will be extremely grateful.

Age has been discussed heavily here about the correct age for the actual operation to be done. In Holland, it is elective at 16, and with parental consent, 14 (for Tim that was fine (15), for others, it might be a bit young, below 16). In the US, it still very much, even as adults to obtain, unless it is for SRS reasons, otherwise castration is only available through the few that will do a plain castration (i.e. Dr. Kimmel) without a full SRS consult, when in fact, SRS is not the desired outcome in any event.

I will reiterate what has been said in the past: any boy that spends months in serious consideration of this should be put on androgen blockers until he is old enough to make an informed decision. Of the boys that had the surgery prior to puberty (Alex had not hit puberty by age 14, by then he was ordering Androcur out of Canada, Tim had not at 15) all were satisfied by the outcome. Only a few boys give even a passing thought, for a boy to spend months considering, and broaching it with his parents, and getting their support, shows a level of wisdom that few adults seem to pocess.

Jay was (and remains so) throughly angry with father for not allowing the surgery to go forward. Now he keeps his body completely shaved to avoid one of the outcomes of puberty. To him, what still hurts the most is the loss of his voice. Of all of thing that can be reversed by castration, the change of voice cannot be.

There was one question that was asked but, I don't fully answered it:

The loss of erectile function in each of the boys...

During gestation, the differences in the hormone levels produced by the pituitary gland helps in determining the physical sex of fetus. During childhood, the pituitary gland produce small amount of testosterone or estrogen. This cause some release of testosterone and by the testes or overies.

When the testes are excised, only the amount produced by the pituitary gland remains, without the "amplification" produced by the testes. It is the drop in the already low level of testosterone that causes loss of erectile function. As time passes, it takes longer to achieve erection, and overall, just less satisfying. after a month or so, all desire to masterbate has disappeared.

One other observation: of all the the boys that I know that either wanted castration (Jay and myself) or were castrated, all of us are gay, and self-identified at an early age, age 6 for myself, all of the other before they were 10. I don't know what the overall corollation is, but I'd very interested in how many of those seeking castration during childhood were self-identified as gay at an early age.

All right all... start your engines... and again, lets keep it a civil discourse... we did quite well during the the last pass.

YC

[DonK1954 (imported)]

I also posted #33 above, but I'll amplify on it a bit.

I'm 54 now, and I've been a eunuch for going on six years now. I'm extremely satisfied being a eunuch, and wouldn't change things back even if I could.

I think I first thought about being neutered when I was 8, when we had one of our dogs neutered. I didn't really understand what it meant, but I thought the idea of not having testicles sounded neat. As I mentioned above, I had started singing in the children's choir, where I was a soprano, before that time. I wasn't a star singer (I was never going to be a soloist), but I enjoyed singing the high parts. Over the years I saw other guys have to leave the choir when their voices changed, and I didn't want that to happen to me.

I also saw guys not much older than me getting hair on their bodies and larger penises, and although I found that fascinating on other guys (I didn't know then that I was gay, but I obviously was), I didn't want that to happen to me. I was able to do some reading that told me my testicles would cause those changes, so by the time I was 11 or 12 I knew I wanted to have them cut off. Of course there was nothing that could be done, and I knew better than to mention this desire to anyone, so puberty started when I was 13, my penis started getting bigger, I developed body hair, and worst of all my voice pretty quickly settled into a baritone. And it was 35 years before I was able to achieve my dream of having my testicles removed.

All of this is a long-winded preamble to saying I would have jumped at the chance to be castrated before puberty, or at least to receive meds to stop puberty from happening until I was deemed old enough to decide to lose my testicles. I never masturbated until I was 14, so I wouldn't have missed that, and I would have been excited at having the opportunity to stay a boy with a small penis and no hair, and best of all a high voice.

I'm willing to grant that an 11- or 12-year old shouldn't get to make such a decision on his own, and that maybe there should be a "test run" of a few years on anti-androgens seeing his friends become men before he gets to be neutered, so I would set the minimum age for voluntary castration at 15 probably. I would, however, allow younger boys to have their testicles removed with their parents' consent and a psych evaluation testifying that they were fully aware of the consequences.

This leads into the idea that there is a continuum of transgenderism. At one end would be the physical boys who are really girls. At the other end are boys who are okay with having penises but just want to stay boys by having their testicles removed. In between would be boys who want their penises amputated as well, and boys who want vaginas but not breasts. I'm fine with having a penis, and just didn't want to get the adult male characteristics. Presently, segments of the medical community deal quite well with the furthest end, what we could call the "true-transgendered", and earlier posts in this thread have pointed out how at least other countries are accommodating boys who don't want to go through male puberty while they transition to girls. Doctors seem quite willing to deal with people who are all one thing or all the other (boys or girls). Right now they have a problem with those of us who are in the middle - boys who don't want all of our male equipment, but don't want to be girls.

I can only hope that in the future we will be recognized and accommodated.