After speaking with my comrade, EunuchBob, I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005. If released, she will still be under house arrest.
Robyn is the slave girl of Todd Bertrang, both of whom were arrested in an FBI sting operation many months ago. All this time there has been no trial because the government lawyers keep changing the charges.
Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to circe two underage girls in front of two FBI agents posing as a couple who wanted circing for their daughters. Hence he was charged with conspiracy.
Robyn was arrested as a co-conspirator, even though as property, she had no rights, in his household, to object.
The FBI case must be weak if they keep changing the charges.
Robyn Soon to be released
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MacTheWolf (imported)
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A-1 (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
...
Do you think that she has turned state's evidence against him?
If she has, and she claims that was was done to her was non-consentual, the case against Todd could be getting a hell of a lot stronger.
She is such a cute kid, I cannot picture anybody doing that to her, for any reason.
Mackie, if they have "DE-PROGRAMMED" her re: "slavery" it could get real nasty.
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MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:23 pm I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005....
Do you think that she has turned state's evidence against him?
If she has, and she claims that was was done to her was non-consentual, the case against Todd could be getting a hell of a lot stronger.
She is such a cute kid, I cannot picture anybody doing that to her, for any reason.
Mackie, if they have "DE-PROGRAMMED" her re: "slavery" it could get real nasty.
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A-1 (imported)
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Blaise (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
If the Feds have a case against Todd Bertrang, where is it? From what some who post here say, Todd Bertrang is not an angel, but I keep wondering what case the Federal Government has.
Thanks for the update.
Thanks for the update.
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bullgeo (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
"circe"??MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:23 pm After speaking with my comrade, EunuchBob, I have found out that Robyn is set to be released January 20, 2005. If released, she will still be under house arrest.
Robyn is the slave girl of Todd Bertrang, both of whom were arrested in an FBI sting operation many months ago. All this time there has been no trial because the government lawyers keep changing the charges.
Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to circe two underage girls in front of two FBI agents posing as a couple who wanted circing for their daughters. Hence he was charged with conspiracy.
Robyn was arrested as a co-conspirator, even though as property, she had no rights, in his household, to object.
The FBI case must be weak if they keep changing the charges.
Todd was arrested because he supposedly consented to
I checked the dictionary with negative results...could you please tell me what "circe" means.
Bull
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Dave (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
There is another thread titled "Todd Bertrang Arrested" that is part of the discussion
ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3920501/
Highlights:
Tood Bertrang and his slave were arrested follawing an FBI sting operation. Two 'parents' contacted Todd, and met with him regarding the circumcision of their two daughters, aged 8 and 12. He agreed to perform the procedure, with the aid of his slave. Both were arrested as a result.
ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3920501/
Highlights:
Tood Bertrang and his slave were arrested follawing an FBI sting operation. Two 'parents' contacted Todd, and met with him regarding the circumcision of their two daughters, aged 8 and 12. He agreed to perform the procedure, with the aid of his slave. Both were arrested as a result.
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jane_says (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
I know precious little about this case, only what I've read here and the stories I've read following links. I have gone and read a lot of what was posted in the Yahoo! group where Todd posted, but that's the end of my knowledge on the subject.
What I'm wondering, though, Wolfie, is whether the defense you mentioned - her being his property with no rights, etc. - will fly in court. It's not like we can go through a legal process to give over our free will to someone else. I understand that lots of people enter into that kind of relationship with others, but I'm wondering if the legal system will accept such an explanation. Is ther a precedent for something like that?
What I'm wondering, though, Wolfie, is whether the defense you mentioned - her being his property with no rights, etc. - will fly in court. It's not like we can go through a legal process to give over our free will to someone else. I understand that lots of people enter into that kind of relationship with others, but I'm wondering if the legal system will accept such an explanation. Is ther a precedent for something like that?
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DocT (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
The Feds have a very high conviction rate, like 97%, because they spend at least two years accumulating evidence before they dangle the final piece of bait. They have a check list of something like 22 items that has to be filled out before they arrest anyone. They are very good at this and there is nothing left to chance.
I'm guessing that the two agents posing as parents were simply the final bait used to establish beyond any doubt that this man was willing to mutilate these children against their will. It is most likely all on video tape so there is no room for interpretation. I only know what I'm reading here, but if Todd is a person who would agree to do this to two young girls... my God, I don't have words. Regardless, they probably have two years of video, computer records, taped phone calls, etc.
No, Jane, no court in any country I'm aware of recognizes slavery. To my knowledge the last country to give up slavery was Saudi Arabia in 1962. But I'm not sure of that bit of trivia.
They will take Robyn's state of mind into account, but I think they will determine that her willingness to give up her will makes her a risk to the public. They will probably put Robyn on parole, meaning that she won't be able to associate with many people from her former life for two to five years. They will also most likely demand an extended period of psycological therapy and evaluations.
Mac, don't get mad at me, I know they are your friends and I'm not trying to upset you or prejudge them, but based on what YOU have told us here, this is how I think it will go. Adults can do what they want with each other, whatever makes them happy, but people who would abuse children... I don't think a judge or jury is going to be very understanding of their slavery culture, and I'm understating this. Actually, if this gets public attention it could blow the lid off slavery.
I'm guessing that the two agents posing as parents were simply the final bait used to establish beyond any doubt that this man was willing to mutilate these children against their will. It is most likely all on video tape so there is no room for interpretation. I only know what I'm reading here, but if Todd is a person who would agree to do this to two young girls... my God, I don't have words. Regardless, they probably have two years of video, computer records, taped phone calls, etc.
No, Jane, no court in any country I'm aware of recognizes slavery. To my knowledge the last country to give up slavery was Saudi Arabia in 1962. But I'm not sure of that bit of trivia.
They will take Robyn's state of mind into account, but I think they will determine that her willingness to give up her will makes her a risk to the public. They will probably put Robyn on parole, meaning that she won't be able to associate with many people from her former life for two to five years. They will also most likely demand an extended period of psycological therapy and evaluations.
Mac, don't get mad at me, I know they are your friends and I'm not trying to upset you or prejudge them, but based on what YOU have told us here, this is how I think it will go. Adults can do what they want with each other, whatever makes them happy, but people who would abuse children... I don't think a judge or jury is going to be very understanding of their slavery culture, and I'm understating this. Actually, if this gets public attention it could blow the lid off slavery.
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surf_toad (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
i thought they got the two of them to plee bargain to child pornography so they could quietly sweep this under the rug and still spank them with enough time to get this thing quiet and forgotten?
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SplitDik (imported)
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Re: Robyn Soon to be released
Despite the presumed careful preparation of the case by FBI, they may get entangled in a number of very tricky issues regarding consent on this one.
First of all, it was "parents" approaching Todd so it could be argued that they were responsible for any consent (parental consent is fairly powerful and can override a number of things, such as statuatory rape). In other words, if Todd presumed that adults could consent to the procedure then it is reasonable that parental consent would cover children.
Secondly, from my understanding (maybe wrong) the "parents" had to repeatedly ask Todd to do it, so he may appear reasonably considerate on the manner of consent.
How they hope to charge Robyn is beyond me. I guess this could be considered child abuse and child abuse must be reported (it is crime to know about it without acting). But then again she has had the procedure done to herself in a "slavery" relationship -- so either how can someone expect her to recognise the abuse and/or report it if she does not recognise the abuse to herself?
Overall it is a very interesting case that may set some precedents in the BSDM community. What can a voluntary slave consent to? What part can a slave play in conspiracy charges?
I think that the only way in current legal context (i.e. no new precedents), is to consider Robyn mentally unfit. I think it would be easy for her defense to make that case.
First of all, it was "parents" approaching Todd so it could be argued that they were responsible for any consent (parental consent is fairly powerful and can override a number of things, such as statuatory rape). In other words, if Todd presumed that adults could consent to the procedure then it is reasonable that parental consent would cover children.
Secondly, from my understanding (maybe wrong) the "parents" had to repeatedly ask Todd to do it, so he may appear reasonably considerate on the manner of consent.
How they hope to charge Robyn is beyond me. I guess this could be considered child abuse and child abuse must be reported (it is crime to know about it without acting). But then again she has had the procedure done to herself in a "slavery" relationship -- so either how can someone expect her to recognise the abuse and/or report it if she does not recognise the abuse to herself?
Overall it is a very interesting case that may set some precedents in the BSDM community. What can a voluntary slave consent to? What part can a slave play in conspiracy charges?
I think that the only way in current legal context (i.e. no new precedents), is to consider Robyn mentally unfit. I think it would be easy for her defense to make that case.