summer in santa cruz ENDS b4 winter :)

[StefanIsMe (imported)]

Thanks Timothy!!!!

Talk about pulling out the stops.. hehehe

What a great read, gave me a reason to start from chapter 1 and go right through to the newly posted ending.

Thanks again, looking forward to more in the other stories

[curious_guy (imported)]

Thanks Timothy!!!!

Talk about pulling out the stops.. hehehe

What a great read, gave me a reason to start from chapter 1 and go right through to the newly posted ending.

Thanks again, looking forward to more in the other stories

I liked it too but I want to find out what happens with Craig. Does he go through with his nullification or does he decide that he likes having sex too much.

I find it a little hard to believe that Josh would go from a boy who would never allow himself to be castrated to volunteering to be nullified.

[Slammr (imported)]

I liked it too but I want to find out what happens with Craig. Does he go through with his nullification or does he decide that he likes having sex too much.

I find it a little hard to believe that Josh would go from a boy who would never allow himself to be castrated to volunteering to be nullified.

I agree. I had big problems with Josh's decision. There was no logical reason given for him to change so much. He had one personality in one chapter and a completely different one in the next. At one time, they were thinking about tricking Josh into being nullified. I think that would have played out better-for Josh to wake up horrified that he's been nullified-that he no longer has the cock he loves so much.

The switch in "voice" throughout the story was also confusing. It started out being Kelly's story, but ended up being Josh's story. Telling it from a third person perspective might have been better.

I hope these are taken as constructive criticisms. I think Timothy has a unique talent-the ability to speak in the "voice" of a kid.

[curious_guy (imported)]

I agree. I had big problems with Josh's decision. There was no logical reason given for him to change so much. He had one personality in one chapter and a completely different one in the next. At one time, they were thinking about tricking Josh into being nullified. I think that would have played out better-for Josh to wake up horrified that he's been nullified-that he no longer has the cock he loves so much.

I think so too.

The switch in "voice" throughout the story was also confusing. It started out being Kelly's story, but ended up being Josh's story. Telling it from a third person perspective might have been better.

There was also one part that was first person from Craig's perspective. I have not read the earlier parts since they were first published but I think there were two parts in Kelly's voice, one in Josh's voice, one in Craig's voice, one or two in Kelly's voice and then the rest were in Josh's voice. At least each part was in the same voice. In the series "Summer on Gastern Island" (which I think was inspired by "Summer in Santa Cruz") the voice changed several times in some parts and it was VERY confusing.

All of Timothy's stories have been written in the first person. I hope he learns to write in third person because it is so much more versatile. The reader can see and hear things that the protagonist can not.

One of the author interviews on http://hour25online.com/ talks about the benefits of third person over first person. I do not remember which one it was but I do remember that it was a female author. The author might have been Laurie R. King but do not sue me if it was not.

I hope these are taken as constructive criticisms. I think Timothy has a unique talent-the ability to speak in the "voice" of a kid.

I like his voice too. I also like the kind of stories he tells: young boys who have just learned how to use their "equipment" in danger of losing it. I like the fact that he does not describe the nullifications so their is no blood and gore. He also has no torture except that for boys who grew up in a society where nullification is so rare that they did not even know it existed even painless involuntary nullification would be a kind of torture. (In both "Something Wicked This Way Comes" and "Sander's Story" the protagonist did not know that boys could be nullified until after the story started.)

By the way, you never said if I should have used more "kid speak" in Sander 8. (See the thread "Sander" in this forum.)

[Timothy (imported)]

What can I say about Josh? He is a very mixed up kid. Perhaps when he was talking about how he'd never let himself be castrated he was really trying to convince himself and failing.

For a flawed story at lot of people were very interested in it.

Timothy

[Slammr (imported)]

What can I say about Josh? He is a very mixed up kid. Perhaps when he was talking about how he'd never let himself be castrated he was really trying to convince himself and failing.

For a flawed story at lot of people were very interested in it.

Timothy

Timothy:

It was one of your first stories. You did an excellent job of using a kid's "voice." I wish I could do so well. The great thing about writing is that it's a learning experience. Generally, the more you do, the better you get. Hopefully, I've improved over the first stories I've posted on the archive. Generally, then, I wrote only first person, in many cases posting several versions of the same story, each from the perspective the different people in the story. One story

from a third person perspective

could have accomplished the same thing. I write flawed stories. If I could write perfect ones, perhaps I'd be getting paid for writing, instead of posting here.

You're not ever going to satisfy everyone with a story. Possibly there are others who liked it that Josh decided to do it himself. For him to make that choice, perhaps we needed to see a little more of his thought process in arriving at that decision.

You hooked me with your stories-and I don't take the time to read that many. I'm certainly not saying that you did a bad job. I'm just-humbly-offering suggestions how you might improve. I know, as a writer, I'm always open to suggestions. You-like me-can always choose to ignore them.

[Slammr (imported)]

There are stories which are better written first person. First person is the most intimate of voices. It puts the reader in the head of the character. He gets to live the story along with the character. He can't know what the other character's are thinking, however. The teller of the story might guess at times what they're thinking, but he can't "know." If you just have one person telling "his" story, first person is hard to beat.

There are different kinds of third person voice. There is, of course, the omniscient, godlike, third person voice who sees everything and knows everything, even what the characters are thinking. The problem with that kind of third person is that you tend to lose intimacy. Orson Scott Card in his "Seventh Son" (Alvin) series uses a third person voice that I like. He puts you in different minds at different times, using third person, but speaking with the voice of that particular individual. If it's a kid, it's the voice of a kid, possibly using words like ain't. If it's an educated adult, it's the voice of an adult.

Here's an example of how that might have been accomplished with "Summer."

"How do you like it, Kelly?"

The question had been posed to Kelly by his twelve year-old cousin, Josh, who he was visiting in Santa Cruz. Kelly was visiting his Aunt Anna and her son Josh for a week. Although he hadn't seen Josh for three years, they'd hit it off right away, spending the day at the boardwalk at the beach in Santa Cruz. The boardwalk was old and a little seedy, but had been fun. Kelly thought that Josh was a beautiful boy; he looked like a young Aaron Carter-the sort of boy that every parent would want.

He wondered, though. Was he really a boy? Had he been done? Done, as in castrated? He couldn't very well ask him, though. If Josh hadn't been castrated, he'd wonder why Kelly was asking such a question. What could he say, "Josh, I was just wondering if you have any genitals-because I don't." Kelly had been castrated the year before. He wasn't sure that he wanted to admit that to Josh-if Josh still had his cock and balls.

When they got ready for sleep, Kelly watched as Josh stripped down to clean, snug, white, jockey briefs, then slipped into his twin bed. Josh hadn't been castrated. Kelly could see an unmistakable bulge in his crotch. Although small, it was evidence that-unlike Kelly-Josh was still a boy.

Kelly, wearing boxer shorts, turned his back to Josh, then got into the other bed. It wasn't that he was ashamed of being a eunuch. It's just that he thought that Josh might not understand. Boys who haven't been told about eunuchs never understand-not at first, anyway. He was afraid that Josh might laugh-or worse-think that he was some kind of freak. He couldn't stand that-not from Josh.

For the first time in almost a year Kelly regretted not having his boy parts. He'd never fooled around with another boy, but knew that boys sometimes did, comparing their cocks to see whose was the biggest-sometimes even whacking off together. If he'd still been a boy, he would have liked to have done that with Josh, but it was a year too late. He decided to keep it a secret from Josh that he was a eunuch Perhaps he could stuff a jock strap with a sock so he'd have a boy-like bulge in his pants, too.

Anyway, Josh had asked him a question: "How do you like it, Kelly?"

Thinking that he was talking about Santa Cruz, he answered, "I love this place. California is great."

That wasn't the question Josh was asking. He didn't care whether Kelly liked California or not. He knew that Kelly was a nullo-that he'd had both his cock and balls cut off. That's what he was dying to know about-what it was like to be a boy no longer, because, without a cock and balls, he wasn't a boy any longer-was he? Eunuchs or nullos-wasn't that what they called them? "No," he said, "that's not what I'm asking. What I want to know is what it's like to be a nullo? I heard that they did you last year. What's it like to have to sit down to pee-and stuff like that?"

Kelly felt his face flush. Josh knew. As clear as a bell he'd said that he knew. He hid his face in his pillow, trying not to cry. Back at home he had intact friends and even showered with the ones on his swim team. He was OK with that. They accepted him as he was-and he wasn't the only nullo in town. For all he knew, though, he might be the only nullo in Santa Cruz. It wasn't easy being the only nullo among a bunch of boys-especially boy who might not understand.

Looking over at his cousin, Josh thought, hell, he's crying just like a little girl. Nullos are different. He was curious, though. Perhaps, if he comforted him, Kelly would let him see it-and Josh wanted to see it. What did Kelly look like without a cock or balls? How did he pee? He walked over to Kelly's bed, sat down on it and began rubbing Kelly's back, saying, "You know, Kelly, being a eunuch is nothing to feel bad about. My mom says that eunuchs are much nicer than boys."

Uncovering his face, Kelly rolled over, looking up at his cousin. He was beautiful! It almost hurt to look at him. To Kelly, it was as if an angel had sat down on his bed. He wanted to reach up, pull his face down and kiss him. So, Josh already knew-but, did he really understand? Would he really accept him, knowing that he was a eunuch? "How did you know?" he asked.

.........................

As you can see, you lose some of the intimacy, but not a lot, and you can tell it from Josh's point of view at the same time. You could even tell what Josh's mother was thinking if you wished. For instance:

The next morning Josh said to his mom, "Mom, Kelly wants to go to the beach. Why don't we take him to Blue and White beach?"

"Oh, no, honey." she answered. I don't think that's a good idea-not with Kelly."

"Why not?" asked Josh. "It's a beautiful day."

"It might make Kelly uncomfortable-okay, sweetie." She had told Josh that Kelly had been nullified, but as usual he had little consideration for how others felt. Anna wished she could have him nullified, too. She was certain it would make him a better boy. He was already a terror, and he hadn't even reached puberty yet. God, she thought. What would he be like then? Although, as his only parent, she could have decided to have him nullified without his permission, she was afraid that it would ruin their relationship. She would just have to put up with his being a nasty boy.

.............

This presented as an example of how the story could have been written

from a third person perspective.

I'm not saying that it's better this way.

[JesusA (imported)]

A wonderful lesson in writing from a true master. Slammr, I've told you several times, in person and on the telephone, that your writing IS of professional quality. It's time to submit something for mainstream publication.

[curious_guy (imported)]

One of the author interviews on http://hour25online.com/ talks about the benefits of third person over first person. I do not remember which one it was but I do remember that it was a female author. The author might have been Laurie R. King but do not sue me if it was not.

It was Laurie R. King. It was part two of the March 9, 2001 interview. Use this link to listen to the whole show: http://hour25online.com/hr25_2001-03-09_show.m3u

I use Windows Media Player and I can skip ahead to other parts of the show if I want to. I do not know if other players will do the same.