Comments on Castration Effects? (Updated 2 January 2004)

[Andrew (imported)]

Every Eunuch will have different effects from his castration. YMWV = Your Mileage Will Vary. Those who do not choose to take Testosterone Replacement Therapy can expect the following.

Infertility, in all cases. If this could be an issue, bank some sperm beforehand.

Some (but by no means all) eunuchs develop “The Eunuch Calm”, a feeling of tranquil contentment, with reduced or eliminated thoughts of sex, aggression, and ambition. This has happened to me, but, again, YMWV.

Reduced libido, erections, and nocturnal emissions, sometimes to the point of total impotence and asexuality.

Weight gain, including subcutaneous body fat. (This thin layer of fat causes the skin to become softer and smoother.) You will need a lifetime diet and exercise program to avoid this problem.

Loss or thinning of body hair, but male pattern baldness slows down or stops. Reduced body odor. The pitch of your voice will NOT change.

Loss of lean muscle mass (hence muscle weakness, increased fatigue, and loss of stamina). Your shoulders will become narrower and you will lose muscle definition in your upper torso without a VIGOROUS exercise program.

Little to mild breast development (gynecomastia), and mild fat redistribution around the hips and thighs.

The penis may shrink.

Hot flushes and night sweats. Very much a YMWV happening. Some eunuchs take low levels of estrogen to counteract this. Consult your Physician.

POSSIBLE moodiness and tearfulness. Do not be surprised if you start crying far more frequently over what may seem to be trivial matters.

There MIGHT be cognitive losses, mostly in spatial orientation and short term memory.

Osteoporosis should be your #2 concern. Your chances of getting this disease are greater if you were castrated before the age of 40. Castration before age 25 MIGHT involve additional problems if your body has not yet finished its post-puberty growth. You should take at least 1,500 MG of calcium and 400 IU of Vitamin D daily. Shortly before or after castration, you should have a bone density scan, and after that a scan every two years. A proper diet and exercise program will help in the battle against osteoporosis.

DEPRESSION! This MUST be your #1 concern. Post-surgical depression is very likely as your testosterone levels crash. Chronic depression IS a major concern, and MAY require professional therapy (including antidepressants) before, during, and after the surgery. You need to consider the issue of depression BEFORE castration. If it is an issue before hand, it will almost certainly become a much larger one afterward. Castration before age 25 MIGHT increases your risk. Some eunuchs may have to take various amounts of testosterone to alleviate depression and other problems.

A Final Thought: most Physicians have no experience in caring for the hypogonadal male. Consider finding a Physician who has a thorough working knowledge on the problems and treatments of menopausal and post-menopausal women. Whilst the biology of a Eunuch and a post-menopausal woman are not identical, there is some significant overlap.

This list has been put together with the help of members of The Eunuch Archives.

http://www.eunuch.org/

[mike (imported)]

I read with interest the different comments made recently on post-op depression. Assuming it is biological in nature, it must be experienced by the hijra of the Indian sub-continent. I do know that they set aside a long period where their new eunuchs are pampered, isolated, well supervised, and encouraged to focus on spirituality. This tradition may well have developed in response to this very same issue of post-op depression.

I have a friend who does HIV training with sex workers in Bombay, including work with hijras, and I've asked her to try to find out more about how the hijra experience and deal with their post-op depression.

[John70 (imported)]

It's been said that depresson is a luxury for those who have the time to be depressed. Maybe alot Hijras are too busy to allow themselves to be depressed. But, then again, it might be something influenced by culture. If they can focus on "becoming" something new and special rather than "losing" something, maybe depression isn't as big an issue.

[mike (imported)]

You are making the assumption that depression-- at least in this case-- is not biological. That could turn out to be the case too. Then there is the difficulty of the hijra not wanting to talk about any post-op depression, as oppressed communities are usually reluctant to talk about any negative aspects of lives. On top of all that we also must deal with human variety and individuality: I doubt any human condition or reaction is universal, one can always find exceptions.

[talula]

I also take issue with the talk that depression is a luxury. This is nothing further than the truth.

Depression is a very serious disease, yes, I said disease. It can, and will, kill you faster than a city bus if left untreated.

There is no luxury in losing your job, your friends, your folks, your house, your self esteem, or even the ability to wipe your own ass. Depression can do this to you.

Of course there are various different forms of depression. Some lighter, some heaver, but all forms of depression are not a luxury and need treatment.

Take this in the spirit is is offered, from someone who knows, just as well as the good sister.

tal

[mike (imported)]

Let us not fall into the trap of assuming that if something is not biological, it is not "real". Western culture is obsessed with reinforcing gender roles and behaviors, of defining and policing what is appropriate male and female behavior. Thus we would be amiss not to consider the possibility that post-op depression can be caused or amplified by concerns over one's ability to conform to gender expectations.

I don't believe-- for example-- that homosexuals are biologically prone to depression (or even that "homosexuality" is a status defined by biology). Nevertheless I am not surprised that folks who conclude they are homosexuals undergo depression, and that is a REAL depression, even if it is not biological.

[talula]

You just put your foot in your mouth Mike. P, sick'em.

[mike (imported)]

No, I have no problems or regrets concerning that statement. It seems conscise, it was well thought out and not made flippantly, and it expresses my views accurately.

Maybe it would be better if you explained what about it concerns you. Can you try to clear up any misunderstandings you may have, instead of just rabble rousing?

[Paolo]

Let us not fall into the trap of assuming that if something is not biological, it is not "real".

Ahem...



What the bloody blue fuck is that supposed to mean?

(>P>Fires up Winamp and selects "Tomorrow Wendy" by Concrete Blonde.<<)

When it comes right down to it, everything concerning "US" is biological, by definition. Did someone hang up the "Philosophy Board" while I was in the toilet?!:-\

Western culture is obsessed with reinforcing gender roles and behaviors, of defining and policing what is appropriate male and female behavior.

Well, I do have to give you that one, to a certain extent. Would that we lived in a society that dressed babies in gray clothing and gave them gender-neutral toys, or a variety, to play with. God help the child who sits Barbie on a remote control tank and screams, "Die, you neo-fascist fashion bitches from Idaho!"

While this phenomenon IS certainly a problem (gender roles, not the Barbie/tank thing), it's certainly a lot better than it was, say 30 years ago, when I insisted upon dressing my little sister's Barbie up like Wonder Woman because my Superman action figure was lonely for company.

Thus we would be amiss not to consider the possibility that post-op depression can be caused or amplified by concerns over one's ability to conform to gender expectations.

Huh?



Back the truck up and hope the Dodge's clutch don't fall out when you do it!

While it's a POSSIBILITY, so is Marylin Monroe descending from the Heavens with a shout and proclaiming Harry Potter the new Messiah. Or perhaps Ian McKellan showing up on my doorstep and saying he's lonely. Possible, but not probable.

Frodo, take off the Ring!

Sorry, just felt like saying that.

Now, let's stop and think for a moment here.

We know that most, but NOT all, castration/penectomy/eunuchism-at-large obsessions/fantasies/fixations/dreams/nightmares are usually forged in the fires of Mt. Doom...I mean, childhood - probably circa age 11-12 for most. Close enough.

By this time, said our '*soon-to-be-not-a-boy-no-more' has had ample time to consider the ramifications of (and probably reject, as well) what Society deems that he should be and how he should behave and appear. No one jumps right in and suddenly says, "WOW, I have to cut my balls off, that'll show 'em!"

Trust me, by this time, the foundations of a good ol' black depression are already well laid and poured in concrete 3.3' (1 meter) deep. By this time, after the genderifically-astonishing deed (read 'genital modifications'), what Society would/will think of him has already taken a flying fuck in the mind of our "stbnabnm*".

In other words, what the World at large is going to think of him doesn't matter one damn bit in HIS eyes. If it did, he'd not be there to begin with. He'd be at a nice, smokey bar swilling 3:2 beer with his buddies and hollering epithets at scantily clad women, secure in his actions and thoughts.

(Which I do confess to have done in the dim past.)

I don't believe-- for example-- that homosexuals are biologically prone to depression (or even that "homosexuality" is a status defined by biology).

And just WHY is this ALWAYS the example that one has to cite?!

Excuse me...but this really makes my closet doors flap in the breeze, gets me knickers in a twist, and my teeth set on edge. I won't go into an extended rant on the discussion of sexual preference being biologically determined. This is just the kind of narrow-minded, right-wing, ultra-conservative Christian redneck bullshit that is preached mindlessly by those who would believe that God talks to THEM and no one else.

I call this schizophrenia, by the way.

Oh, and if the homosexuals are not

biologically prone to depression,

who is? Is depression caused by something biological? If you call complex chains of chemical reactions in the human brain biological, then I'd say 'yes'. Now imagine that sexual preference and arousal are also being caused by similar reactions in a human brain.

Trust me, fella, you don't just wake up one day and fuck the first man you get your hands on out of curiosity. It's not like "Oh, I'm gay today! Look out, here I come!"

Just think of it...right now, in a hospital nursery somewhere, is a little newborn baby boy and he's GAY! In fact, there's thousands of them out there. But wait, he could be in there thinking, "Oh, I think I'll chose a lifestyle where everyone hates me, wants to kill me, but settles for making fun of me and beating me up most of the time."

Nevertheless I am not surprised that folks who conclude they are homosexuals undergo depression, and that is a REAL depression, even if it is not biological.

Now that we've concluded that you do believe in homosexuals, and that they do get depressed, where do we go with it? Are we sure by now that it's biological? What about all of this brain chemistry research that's led us to today's miracles of Prozac, Wellbutrin, etc., etc., and so forth? Biology interacting with chemistry?

And are you SURPRISED, is ANYONE surprised in the LEAST bit by the fact that those who face being gay get depressed?!

When you run into mindless bullshit like this every few seconds, it tends to get to you. Trust me, folks, I know.

So now, we are faced with biological depression, which only affects heterosexuals, and Society-induced depression that is a whole different animal?!

And what's the point, you wonder?

People get depressed.

It happens.

Science has proven that it's caused by misfires that are chemical errors in the human brain. It's biological. It can be fixed.

Fixed.

There's another lovely word, and precisely the reason that we're all HERE at EA.

Castration throws a wrench in the machine that is the balance of the brain. It is not only a shock to the body, but to the Mind as well. No matter how much thought has gone into it, it's STILL a shock. It requires adaptation to the changes. One change, as we have all learned the hard way, is in the chemical reactions of the brain being thrown off...which we call DEPRESSION.

Pure biology.

To hell with what Society thinks. It's like the saying, "No one knows I'm a eunuch." Well, they might not know, and if they don't, then how do THAT make us depressed over it? Should we tell them, and then get more depressed?



I'd go on, but I won't.

This is a total fucking waste.

[talula]

Actually, I was thinking something of the order that folks of any sexuality suffer depression and it had nothing to do with thier sexuality.

That is unless you want to bring in the fact that childhood and adulthood is a bitch and then you die.

I don't care what you think Mike. folks are born, folks grow up, and suppoedly folks are supposed to work thier lives as best as they can. Now, one of my greatest desire is someone to come up with a manual "growing up: best way", and another "parenting: best way". I will read this. Read this alot.

Folks are folks. Everyone has a lifestyle, just like an asshole, or an opinion. One thing that will always hold true, is the truth. If you can't except that, that is not my fault.

tal