OUT Magazine Article on Eunuchism

[Paolo]

On the NonFiction Board as well. The picture is there too.

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... #post21965

The article, OCR scanned and posted:

http://www.eunuch.org/Alpha/C/ea_195222castrati.htm

[Bboy]

It's a great article ... thanks for making it available Paolo. I think the references to www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org) in there are positive.

My only beef is that Richard obviously visited but did not participate here with us (as far as I know ... unless one of you is he??!!) That's a great loss of a resource for exploring his thesis.

I hope that people read carefully and don't skip over this the "small fraction" part of this quote:

Narratives on wwweunuch.org indicate that a small fraction of people, who are heavily into domination and submission, nurture the idea that castration converts males into the “ultimate” bottoms: meek, malleable, and inexorably submissive individuals.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but this community is about so much more.

If he's really embraced his 'e' status and gained a wonderful ability to work together in a group atmosphere, why not participate here, in his own community?

On the NonFiction Board as well. The picture is there too.

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthr ... #post21965

The article, OCR scanned and posted:

http://www.eunuch.org/Alpha/C/ea_195222castrati.htm

[eunuchunique (imported)]

Hello Bboy and Paulo,

It turns out that I have made contact with Richard Wassersug and I know he saw your message below. It seems that he does follow the discussion here, but evidently doesn't want to post--at least not under his own name.

He told me that he didn't pick teh title of the article and wasn't happy with what the editors used for a title, since he feels--and I agree-that the article has nothing to do with "Castration Anxiety."

His email address is not in the article, but it is also not hidden since he has a large presence on the internet. If you want to contact him directly, he is at tadpole@dal.ca. He is continuing to do real research on eunuchdom.

Paulo,

The picture you posted with Wassersug's article is not the picture of him that is with the OUT article, but an artist's addition. And it doesn't look like him But the article does have a picture of him; do you want to post it?

EU

It's a great article ... thanks for making it available Paolo. I think the references to www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org) in there are positive.

My only beef is that Richard obviously visited but did not participate here with us (as far as I know ... unless one of you is he??!!) That's a great loss of a resource for exploring his thesis.

I hope that people read carefully and don't skip over this the "small fraction" part of this quote:

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but this community is about so much more.

If he's really embraced his 'e' status and gained a wonderful ability to work together in a group atmosphere, why not participate here, in his own community?

[Paolo]

For those who have not seen the magazine...

I assumed that the picture that I did scan from article (albeit in BW not color) was a charicature of the author. I would only scan and post his real picture if he says that it is OK to do so.

I have also been considering drafting a letter to OUT Magazine about the article, in that I also found the title of the article to be a bit "off". Of course, castration is going to produce a LOT of anxiety, especially if the fellow in question has just found out he has cancer. Most people, I think, would freak out if they had a cancerous mole on the skin...much less cancer of something important deep inside the body! Still, the main focus of the article is not really the anxiety issue, but the lifestyle afterwards and how it has been altered.

I also feel that the Community at large here is a bit misrepresented by the paragraph:

A study of the narratives of modern eunuchs and eunuch wanna-be's (see

www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org)

) shows that among those interested in partnership, some seek males, others females. Thus neither history nor modern eunuchdom gives a clear answer about whether sexually active eunuchs were/are heterosexual or homosexual.

It goes on to state:

A common myth about eunuchs is that we are servile, if not obsequious. Narratives on

www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org) indicate that a small fraction of people, who are heavily into domination and submission, nurture the idea that castration converts males into the "ultimate" bottoms: meek, malleable, and inexorably submissive...

There is MORE to this Community than that, however. Of all the things to comment about, it had to be that!:-\

Of the eunuchs that I do know, whether physical, chemical, or what have you, I have to say that I don't know ANY that fit that description! I feel the need to attempt to correct this statement.

This site has already once been described in the media as "the dark underbelly of the Internet", and that's not the image that we want to project.

[eunuchunique (imported)]

Hello Paolo,

I think you should contact Wassersug directly (tadpole@dal.ca) about posting his picture.

I know he would be happy to have you write OUT, since the title of his article is indeed seriously misleading. Personally I don't think the title helps eunuchs or, for that matter, prostate cancer patients in anyway. I think it deserves a complaint, but I'm not the type to make it (i.e, I don't wish to "out" myself in OUT magazine).

On the other hand, I think you are a bit hard on Wassersug, when he writes that "

a small fraction of people, who are heavily into domination and submission nurture the idea that castration converts males into the

"ultimat

e" bottoms...." and you react by saying "

There is MORE to this Community than that...!" Isn't that diversity of our community implicit in Wassersug statement "... a small fraction of people.."?

As for your not having met any eunuch's who are "inexorably submissive" or "servile, if not obsequious" Wassersug doesn't say that euncuhs are that way. He specificaly calls it a "myth."

Personally I think Wassersug did a us a service in giving positive press to eunuchdom. However, if no one writes anything to OUT magazine, then he will look like an isolated weirdo. It would thus be nice to have some follow-up from eunuch.org. However, strategically I feel that solidarity with Wassersug rather than criticism of him would help our community most in the long run. Jesus was right when he implied in his review of Wassersug's OUT essay the history was correct. And that is what the outside (OUT side?) world needs to know.

Frankly, the weakest part of the essay is, without a doubt, its title. And that does deserve to be criticizes as it undermines most of what

follows.

EU

-------------------------

For those who have not seen the magazine...

I assumed that the picture that I did scan from article (albeit in BW not color) was a charicature of the author. I would only scan and post his real picture if he says that it is OK to do so.

I have also been considering drafting a letter to OUT Magazine about the article, in that I also found the title of the article to be a bit "off". Of course, castration is going to produce a LOT of anxiety, especially if the fellow in question has just found out he has cancer. Most people, I think, would freak out if they had a cancerous mole on the skin...much less cancer of something important deep inside the body! Still, the main focus of the article is not really the anxiety issue, but the lifestyle afterwards and how it has been altered.

I also feel that the Community at large here is a bit misrepresented by the paragraph:

A study of the narratives of m

odern eunuchs and eunuch wanna-be's (s

ee

www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org)

) shows that among those interested in partnership, some seek males, others females. Thus neither history nor modern eunuchdom gives a clear answer about whether sexually active eunuchs were/are heterosexual or homosexual.

It goes on to state:

A co

mmon myth about eunuchs is that we are servile, if not obsequious. Narratives on

www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org) indicate that a small fraction of people, who are heavily into domination and submission, nurture t

he idea that castration converts males into the "ultimate" bottoms: meek, malleable, and inexorably submissive...

There is MORE to this Community than that, however. Of all the things to comment about, it had to be that!:-\

Of the eunuchs that I do know, whether physical, chemical, or what have you, I have to say that I don't know ANY that fit that description! I feel the need to attempt to correct this statement.

This site has already once

been described in the media as "the dark underbelly of the Internet", and that's not the image that we want to project.

[Bboy]

eunuchunique,

I think the article was a service to the community, too. I just wanted to make that clear to both you and he. As did you I read the essay as embracing the discussion that has been had here so many times and that is the eniqueness of this site in its ability to draw gay, straight, transgendered, etc. people together under one umbrella, something that is definately NOT the norm on the web.

I am not personally offended that he doesn't participate here but I do find it odd that if a person can have an article published about castration in a fairly well known magazine that they would be squeemish about posting here. That's just a personal opinion/comment and not meant to disparage at all.

I understand and share Paolo's concern that, knowing how people read things, they will come away remembering only two things about eunuchs and that's submissive master/slave-ism even though the article disputed those notions I felt it could have been a little stronger.

I totally agree that the title "Castration Anxiety" does not fit the tone or content of the story at all.

On the whole the author is definately to be congratulated on one of the few positive portrayals of the eunuch community out there and for giving

www.eunuch.org (http://www.eunuch.org) i

ts props

If he ever feels comfortable stopping the :luv2lurk:ing and wants to jump in we'd sure love to talk with him.

[eunuchunique (imported)]

So any chance that you or Paolo or someone in the eunuch.org community might follow up on Wassersug's essay in OUT with a letter to them about the ridiculous title they gave his article?

I can't say why Richard Wassersug wants to lurch rather than chat at Eunuch.org, but if you google his name you'll get some idea about his various activities. He is both a professor in a medical school and in the media in Canada. I noticed that OUT magazine (purposefully?) said absolutely nothing about who he was or where he came from. My guess is that he wants to keep various aspects of his life partitioned. But, as I mentioned to Paolo, one could email him directly and ask him.

EU

eunuchunique,

I think the article was a service to the community, too. I just wanted to make that clear to both you and he. As did you I read the essay as embracing the discussion that has been had here so many times and that is the eniqueness of this site in its ability to draw gay, straight, transgendered, etc. people together under one umbrella, something that is definately NOT the norm on the web.

I am not personally offended that he doesn't participate here but I do find it odd that if a person can have an article published about castration in a fairly well known magazine that they would be squeemish about posting here. That's just a personal opinion/comment and not meant to disparage at all.

I understand and share Paolo's concern that, knowing how people read things, they will come away remembering only two things about eunuchs and that's submissive master/slave-ism even though the article disputed those notions I felt it could have been a little stronger.

I totally agree that the title "Castration Anxiety" does not fit the tone or content of the story at all.

On the whole the author is definately to be congratulated on one of the few positive portrayals of the eunuch community out there and for giving

www.eunuc

h.org (http://www.eunuch.org) i

ts props

If he ever feels comfortable stopping the :luv2lurk:ing and wants to

jump in we'd sure love to talk with him.

[An Onymus (imported)]

I thought that the most striking thing about the article, was Wassersug's description of the way his perspective on life in general, and his way of relating to people, changed after his surgery. But my view is, that you don't have to be desexed, in order to change in those ways. It has for a long time seemed to me, that most of our ideas about sexual differences, and about our associations with each other, come, not from our hormones, but from the distorted ideas which the societies in which people live, pressure us to accept, and from the unnatural mental and behavioral conditioning which human societies deceive us into adopting. I guess that the changes resulting from emasculation, might be conducive to the kind of self-examination which could lead to constructive change. But I really think that the problem is one which is in people's heads, and not in their gonads.

[JesusA (imported)]

I had a very pleasant (and very long) telephone conversation with Professor Wassersug yesterday. He was in his office in the medical school at his university on Sunday evening working on his research. I have also checked his research credentials as a scientist. Dr. Wassersug is internationally respected for his work in anatomy and neurobiology. He is very articulate and able to translate Academic into real English. Among other things, he is currently "Scientist-in-Residence" for the Discovery Channel, working to translate cutting-edge science for non-scientists to understand and enjoy.

We talked about some of his current research projects. He is an incredibly busy man with a number of fascinating projects relating to castration and eunuchs in progress. His prestige, his personality, and his drive are bringing additional scholars into the subject. In addition to his own work centered in biology, there are projects involving archaeology, history, psychology, and literary analysis (and probably many other subjects that we didn’t discuss). We can expect to see a number of fascinating studies by him, in collaboration with him, and/or inspired by him over the next few years. (Academic publication can take a long time to see print after it’s completed.)

I expect that he will let us know as these many projects see print. I know that I am looking forward to reading them.

With his busy schedule and the many projects he’s involved in, I wouldn’t expect to see Professor Wassersug as regular contributor to the Archive, though I wouldn’t be surprised if he came in occasionally to ask questions of us that would contribute to his research. He may do more for public and scientific/medical understanding of eunuchs than anyone else out there.

[TerryUK (imported)]

My thanks to Richard Wasserung for writing his article. The more information that can be put out to a wider audience to be read and discussed the better. I live in England so I am not sure where I would get a copy of 'OUT', so my thanks also to Paolo for copying the article to the Eunuch Archive.

I have added some comments of my own to selected parts of Richard's article.

Castration Anxiety Article from OUT Magazine

What anxiety? I certainly had no anxiety during the 12 months that I was chemically castrated. I have no anxiety about being surgically castrated. I am really keen to become a eunuch.

From VOICES, OUT Magazine, September 2003 by Richard Wassersug. The Author is a man who was castrated because of prostate cancer, and sums up briefly his feelings upon being a eunuch.

I am not sure from reading his article if he was chemically or surgically castrated. The effects are similar.

Each year more than 40,000 men in North America die of prostate cancer, and along the way, virtually all of us who have failed potentially curative procedures that remove or destroy the prostate gland are offered either surgical or chemical castration as the next treatment option.

I have been very fortunate. My prostate cancer was picked up at a very early stage as the result of a blood test taken during a routine health check. My PSA was only 7. I had two trans-rectal prostate biopsies. Not a pleasant procedure. A rod was inserted into my rectum and, guided by ultra-sound scanning, a needle was shot through the rectal wall into my prostate. A core of prostate tissue was taken for microscopic examination. 6 cores of tissue were taken. At the first biopsy, 5 of the cores were normal and 1 core was inconclusive. Two months later, a second biopsy concentrating on the suspect part of my prostate showed early cancer cells.

I completed a course of radiotherapy in May 2002. My PSA level was below 1. I had the last depot of Zoladex LA injected into me in November 2002. Since than I have not received any treatment of any kind. My PSA level has been consistently low at 0.1.

I shall be become a eunuch of my own free will, not because of prostate cancer. I want to enjoy for good the "castrate calm" that I experienced during the 12 months that I was chemically castrated.

As a group, though, we hide the fact that we are castrated. Few castrated men would ever call themselves eunuchs in public, for there is little pride in being a eunuch. I’d like to change that I believe that there are some pluses in being a eunuch. I have discovered that my brain works very differently without testosterone and that there are things I understand now that I never understood as a male. To use these new insights well has taken a willingness on my part to view the world in ways I never had before. This skill hasn’t come easily or instantly.

I agree. This is why I am grateful to the Eunuch Archive for giving me the opportunity to learn more about castration and to be able to learn the opinions of men who have been surgically castrated. I should like to see a greater awareness in the public at large of the advantages of castration. I should like married couples to be aware of, and to be able to discuss freely and openly, the advantages for husbands who have passed on their genes to the next generation of being gelded once the wife's sexuality has been diminished so restoring the balance between them.

Of course, as a eunuch I think less about raw sex. But I do not think less about people.

Agreed. For me this is one of the really great advantages of becoming a eunuch. It is part of the "castrate calm".

A beautiful woman is no less beautiful now than before.

I enjoy looking at her. I enjoy her company. But I do not lust after her. She is just a very special person whom I am privileged to know.

When I was still a male, I assumed that eunuchs got stuck with harem supervision simply because they were not going to cuckold the king. Now I see that that is a naive and incomplete interpretation. True, eunuchs were not sexual competitors to potentates in Darwinian sense. But it surely took more than being nonreproductive to maintain a harmonious harem. It took a deep understanding of what women wanted and needed.

I am sure that I shall become a better husband once I become my wife's own personal eunuch and I shall become even more keen to make her happy but free of any desire for any sexual intercourse.

It is too late for me to be a castrato. (Besides, I sing bass.) But it is not too late for me to use my broadened worldview and new-found passion to help myself and serve others. Although I am not about to organize a ‘Eunuch Pride” parade, I do believe that I have been privileged to see the world so differently.

I also am looking forward to the "privilege" of becoming a eunuch (scheduled for Monday September 22 - I can't wait to lose my balls). I also very much agree with others' comments that we do need to get informed opinion about eunuchs out into the wider word. Any authoritative output to the media is to be applauded.

Terry