grammar and spelling

[yankee masha (imported)]

I don't mean to be nasty to the good people who present their stories here and can't spell or do basic grammar (I am referring of course to the English language stories since I don't read other languages). I have made my career using our special English language and understand that it can be tricky, but if you are on a computer then you have something called Spell Check. Some have grammar check, but not many.

I have seen a lot of great stories that are

unreadable because of the errors that it cuts into the effect of them. I don't want to mention any specifically (because there are so many!) and it is obvious the writers are such great people with ideas we would like to share.

But it is hard to maintain an interest (or an erection) when trying to figure out the words being used.

Like these:

The word is grateful, not greatfull.

There are many words that sound the same but are different.

Like: Your (possessive); you're (contraction for you are); youre (not a word).

Scrotum, not the many other spellings; clitoris, not the many other spellings; testicles, not the many other spellings. Plural words: ponies, not ponyes, ponys, pony's, poanies, or the other wrong ways.

You don't separate sentences with a bunch of dots, like this...... Use periods or commas or semicolons. Try using capital letters to start sentences. Try separating paragraphs.

Just some examples.

And, no, I wouldn't be interested in editing them for you myself.

yankee masha

[Paolo]

If you think that the ones that get out to the public are annoying, you should see what I throw in the trash every day.

One would think that by now, as many times as this topic has come up, that most would-be writers could use SOMETHING with a spell check built in. At least that would get rid of the major mistakes.

Sadly enough, it seems that very few of our submissions are done with a program like Corel or Word, which would eliminate SOME of the errors.

[JesusA (imported)]

Eye Halve a Spelling Chequer

Eye halve a spelling chequer.

It came with my pea sea.

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am wrong oar write.

It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid

It nose bee fore two long,

And eye can put the error rite,

Its rarely ever wrong.

Eye half run this poem threw it.

I am shore your pleased two no.

Its letter perfect in it’s weigh.

My chequer tolled me sew.

------Sauce unknown

Never trust a machine to do work that requires intelligence! I have an overhead transparency of this poem. (24 point type so that it fills the screen.) It was up as students entered the classroom on one of the days when I talked about term papers. The following class session had the overhead where every sentence would make it through a grammar checker….

Most of them got the point.

[Mac (imported)]

.

My spell checker and grammer checker suggested the following changes. I guess that they don't all agree.

Eye Halve (Halves) a Spelling Chequer

Eye halve (halves) a spelling chequer (sp).

It came with my pea sea.

It plainly marques four my revue

Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike (strikes) a key and type a word

And weight four it two say

Weather eye am (is) wrong oar write.

It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache (aches) is maid

It nose bee fore two long,

And eye can put the error rite, (.)

Its (It's) rarely ever wrong.

Eye half run this poem threw it.

I am shore your pleased two no.

Its letter perfect in it’s weigh

(weighs).

My chequer (sp) tolled me sew.

------Sauce unknown

[yankee masha (imported)]

Jesus, that's a wonderful poem. Did you do it yourself? It would take a long time and a real knowledge of English to create it.

But the point I was making was not about spell check, which looks at independent words, but about the outrageous spelling and worse grammar found in so many good stories.

I know lots of intelligent people have trouble spelling. English especially is a plastic language and spelling is arbitrary, and sometimes baffling even for smart folks. Grace Kelly of Monaco could not spell cat, as the story goes.

The real point is that if you are publishing a story I feel you are obliged to edit it so it is readable, not inflict the annoyance of deciphering on the reader. For myself it is a waste of time to slog through grammar and spelling that is at the grade school level, in the expectation of enjoying a fantasy.

I am surprised, Paolo, that you can devote so much of your time to it. Having spent years at it I know what a pain in the neck it can be.

[JesusA (imported)]

I wish I could take credit for the poem, but it arrived in an e-mail from a friend several years ago. The item below is an ancient one from my collection (circa early 1970s). I have it in a very fuzzy Xerox copy that was probably from the 50th time through a machine. It also got the point across to students.

______________

Actual Newspaper Headlines

At least that’s the claim. Even with what I know about journalists, I doubt that some of these would slip past. At least not without conscious effort at play.

Police Begin Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers

Drunk Gets Nine Months in Violin Case

Farmer Bill Dies in House

Iraqi Head Seeks Arms

Prostitutes Appeal to Pope

Eye Drops Off Shelf

Squad Helps Dog Bite Victim

Miners Refuse to Work After Death

Stolen Painting Found by Tree

Two Soviet Ships Collide, One Dies

Killer Sentenced to Die for Second Time in 10 Years

Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead

Kids Make Nutritious Snacks

Local High School Dropouts Cut in Half

Include Your Children When Baking Cookies

[yankee masha (imported)]

As a former journalist whose specialty was headlines and such blurbs, I can tell you these are not mistakes. The thing about newspaper guys is they love to play with words, do things that can be read two ways, and always can hide behind shocked denial if someone objects.

But if you knew the crap that comes in on the phones to newspapers from the nutsies who want to rant, and the letters that are sent to publications, you'd understand. Media writing is like theatre. The jokes, laughs and pranks and professionalism all are the same.

No, Jesus, I can verify that these are not bloopers. They are comedy.

And thanks for posting them. I love them.

[Shortie (imported)]

Yankee Masha,

Many thanks for starting this thread. You have legitimate concerns here, and I concur with them completely. Too many times to mention I've simply stopped reading a story because of the poor spelling and grammar. My usual thought is, "Surely that author isn't bright enough to be interested in sex."

For those who like to write stories, but are using Notepad or Wordpad because of the cost of "real" word processing programs, may I suggest giving Jarte a try. It's a free download at: http://www.jarte.com. It contains a spell checker, as well as many useful editing tools. Definitely worth a look.

[Il Musico (imported)]

I agree with the plea to everyone to try to write correctly, to the extent possible. I know very well that I'm a culprit too - I'm not a native English speaker, and so I do some silly mistakes. Sometimes I notice it afterwards, like that time when I wrote "teached" instead of "thought" several times in a story, and the spelling checker didn't cry! I guess that by error I told it to accept the "new" word... I do that sometimes, when the spelling checker doesn't recognize words which I'm sure are correct!

What catches my attention quite often is how native English speakers mix up words with different meanings and spelling, but similar pronunciation. Such as "it's" against "its", which I have seen wrongly used even in printed books! Or "whose" against "who's". Or "break" against "brake", "affect" against "effect", "site" against "sight", and so many more!

Here where I live (non-English speaking country) the same phenomenon is happening: Many people are no longer learning to correctly write their own language at school. And worse than that, some people don't even care for writing correctly! I do care, and while my writing is not perfect, far from it, I try to improve. I welcome corrections from my readers, which is a great way to learn, and to know that people are reading what I write!

A recommendation for those who want to improve: Read National Geographic. It's interesting, and they use a beatiful language in many articles, and they try to get it all correct. NG is my reference: If it's written there, I assume it's correctly written!

Now, don't let this discourage people from writing at all. A good story with bad spelling is still better than no story at all! But a good story with good writing is of course better.

I just hope I can soon find time to write down all the adventures Peter and his friends have had lately! "The Choirboy" was the first mayor story I ever wrote in English... At night, while dreaming, half asleep and half awake, those young castrati keep ghosting through my mind. They have been flying, diving, loving and hating, and of course singing, and have gone through quite a few adventures while growing up as soprano singers. I just need TIME to write it all down! TIME, that scarcest commodity of all in our overhurried world! Can someone send me a big bag of it?

With best wishes,

Il Musico

[yankee masha (imported)]

Your english is excellent, Il Musico. I made my living with writing and editing, and I must say that I make many more mistakes than you do. The common usage is what I hear most of the time, so it sneaks in on my own syntax. English is a changing language, and that makes it so useful. Many things that were correct but awkward have been replaced by usage.

In America we had (have) a crop of teachers who wre noit well taught themselves in proper English, so their students continued the errors, and now these are part of the common usage even by newscasters adn well educated people.

The Afro-American vernacular also has come in as part of the common usage and non-words are used everywhere, such as "dis" instead of "disrespect." Black people have an incredible ability to use words as paint brushes and continually make new words and meanings to spark the artistry of English.

President Bush says "nuculer" instead of the correct "nuclear" carrying on the tradition established by Dan Quayle.

I should mention, since you have asked, that instead of "teached" the correct word is "taught," not "thought."

I once knew a Prussian man whose English was so perfect that I would watch every word I used so I would not embarrass myself. Then by accident we were talking and he asked what I meant. It turned out he spoke perfect English but had a very limited vocabulary so did not always know what I was saying to him, but was too polite to say so. He was extremely flattered when I told him that I was in awe of how well he spoke English so I assumed he was fluent in all the words.

I rather feel the same way about your English, Il Musico. It is lovely to read.

Language is an art form but people nowadays feel if you know what they are saying then what the hell?

ym