ReMovinG mY foResKin

[Leon (imported)]

"

For me the sacrifice of attachment to sexuality as exemplified

by eunuchism is a choice to focus on the eternal.

"

Yes, I think there is a spiritual side to castration. In my

thinking, voluntary castartion has a strong spiritual aspec

t to it, in so far

has it is about realising who you are.

"As a non-Jewish adult, you are outside the mold, but it is not

impossible that a liberal moyl might be persuaded to do it."

Please read my last post, the one where I discussed why I wanted to perform this procedure on myself.

Ethics:-

'Do what thou wilt shall be the hol

e of the law!'

If it does not break the law of liberty, what the hell!

You only live once!

All the best,

Leon

[Leon (imported)]

"

For me the sacrifice of attachment to sexuality as exemplified

by eunuchism is a ch

oice to focus on the eternal.

"

Yes, I think there is a spiritual side to castration. In my

thinking, voluntary castration has a strong spiritual aspect to it, in so far has it is about realis[quote="bo

bov (imported)" time=1055677620]
ing who you are. Wh

at could be more spiritually profound?

"As a non-Jewish adult, you are outside the mold, but it is not

impossible that a liberal moyl might be persuaded to do it."

Please read my last post, the one where I discussed why

I wanted to perform this procedure on myself.

Ethics:-

'Do what thou wilt shall be the whol
[/quote]
e of the law!'

If it does not break the law of liberty, what the hell!

You only live once!

All the best,

Leon

[bobov (imported)]

Leon, sorry for my inattention. Still, with so much practical experience at circumcision, a moyl might give you some helpful advice, even if you are to do the work yourself. I'm reaching here, but it might be worth a try.

Yankee Masha, we are almost in complete agreement. I believe, as you do, that people should be able to follow their own paths to happiness, so long as they act within the bounds of ethics. In my post, I said that the Golden Rule required only reciprocity of ends, not of means. For example, if I like to eat avocados, that does not mean I should force avocados on those who dislike them; it means that if I wish to be well fed, I accept an obligation to see that my brothers are well fed, according to their wishes. This is, perhaps, where we differ. I do not think it is enough to say "do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt others." This is only a negative rule; it tells us what not to do. I believe that human beings also need a positive rule, one that tells them to accept responsibility for the wellbeing of others to the extent that they wish their own wellbeing to be safeguarded. I see this as the clear meaning of the Golden Rule. Once again, it is necessary to respect other people's differing conceptions of wellbeing, but ethics is founded on the inclusion of others in the calculus of our behavior.

There is another danger to the "as long as it doesn't hurt others" rule. It invites the reply, central to anti-gay rhetoric, that by shattering the moral unanimity of society, any atypical behavior, especially when unashamedly public, does grave moral and psychological harm. I would reply that moral unanimity is no more necessary than ethnic or racial or religious unanimity to a workable society, but that will be a tough sell among the majority who believe that behavioral homogeneity is the very essence of morality. By insisting on the Golden Rule, we insist that a grudging majority offer minorities the same benefits and protections that the majority claims for itself. The Golden Rule is our best refuge.

[glans (imported)]

Leon,

I can certainly empathize with your desire to perfrom your own circumcision. It is a ritual that I have thought about many times for close to 50 years, and even attempted at age 12 (but at that age, I'm not sure that the psychological importance of doing it myself was that clear). About 20 years ago during a visit to my urologist, the subject of circumcision came up when he noticed my foreskin piercings and scars. He said that he did excellent free-hand circumcisions if I'd like to have it done. For some reason, I guess because I trusted him, I found myself admitting, "No, when it is done I want to do it myself."

He was not at all shocked, and said, "That's fine, but before you do it contact my office to make sure that I'm in town just in case you run into problems or have an emergency."

I thought that was very understanding, accepting, and concerned. It would be nice if all of the do-it-yourselfers had such great back-up.

[Leon (imported)]

Wow, who would of thought an ethics discussion would originate from a circumcision discussion? How did we get to this point? Where will it to lead to?

"

Still, with so much practical experience at circumcision, a moyl might give you some helpful advice, even if you are to do the work yourself. I'm reaching here, but it might be worth a try.

"

if you know of any moyls who can help in the Uk, please private message me the details.

"

This is only a negative rule; it tells us what not to do. I believe that human beings also need a positive rule, one that tells them to accept responsibility for the wellbeing of others to the extent that they wish their own wellbeing to be safeguarded.

"

A very interesting point! I have never quite looked at 'do what you want as long as none is hurt' quite in this way before. The positive rule for me individual is teh often misquoted misunderstood, completely religionised central tenet of thelema:

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

I wrote a paper on this awhile back to explain exactly what it means (to me as thelema is about the individual). essentailly though, it is about realisig who you are and discoving this without opposition from goverment (if LSD will lead to self-realisation for you, DO IT!), religion (if sex will bring you closer to yourself, DO IT!) or morality (if drinking your own piss will further your discovery of your true nature, DO IT!). The only rule is to explore your own individual will without forcing or imposing your will onto others because they have their own paths to travel.

That is do not interfare with people's lives, but be there for them with love, respect and understanding. Tell them when they are being stupid, but also allow them to be stupid, b

ecause we all act stupid every so often, even the internationally respected psychotherapist I work for!

"I thought that was very underst

anding, accepting, and concerned. It would be nice if all of the do-it-yourselfers had such great back-up."

yes, it would be great! There should be a helpline for self-modification, would the eunuch archive start one?

"Need advice on how to demolish that testicle?

Lost the cord in the bloody scrotum?

How to stop the band form hurting?

If you ever needed advice, but there was no where to turn? Ever wanted to castrate yourself, but were needed soemone to talk you through it?

Now there is a special helpline to help you through it, designed by the marvellous team at the eunuch archive, who better to give advice on mutilating yourself?

Please call now:-

282377620 0378 009324987"

Sorry, its been a really long day!

Leon

[Leon (imported)]

Wow, who would of thought an ethics discussion would originate from a circumcision discussion? How did we get to this point? Where will it to lead to?

"

Still, with so much practical experience at circumcision, a moyl might give you some helpful advice, even if you are to do the work yourself. I'm

reaching here, but it might be worth a try.

"

if you know of any moyls who can help

in the Uk, please private message me the details.

"

This is only a negative rule; it tells us what not to do. I believe that human beings also need a positive rule, one that tells them to accept responsibility

for the wellbeing of others to the extent that they wish their own wellbeing to be safeguarded.

"

A very interesting point! I have never quite looked at 'do what you want as long as none is hurt' quite in this way before. The positive rule for me individual is teh often misquoted misunderstood, completely religionised central tenet of thelema:

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

I wrote a paper on this awhile back to explain exactly what it means (to me as thelema is about the individual). essentailly though, it is about realisig who you are and discoving this without opposition from goverment (if LSD will lead to self-realisation for you, DO IT!), religion (if sex will bring you closer to yourself, DO IT!) or morality (if drinking your own piss will further your discovery of your true nature, DO IT!). The only rule is to explore your own individual will without forcing or imposing your will onto others because they have their own paths to travel.

That is do not interfare with people's lives, but be there for them with

love, respect and understanding. Tell them when they are being stupid, but also allow them to be stupid, b

1055778720]
ecause we all act stupid every so often, even the internationally respected psychotherapist I work for!

"I though

t that was very underst
[/quote]
anding, accepting, and concerned. It would be nice if all of the do-it-yourselfers had such great back-up."

yes, it would be nice!

Leon

[yankee masha (imported)]

In a way we appear to have stgrayed far from your penis, Leon, but the whole thread is filled with caring, people who want you to have what you want without loss or disaster. So i guess teh golden rule is firnly in place here.

It should be added though that in the final phase only your individual decision is the one that matters because you are the only one who will be involved actively. (Unless you are selling tickets for the performance. Make mine front row center, please.)

I would be interested to learn if a moyl (moel, mohel?) would be allowed to circumcise a gentile if it were not done as a religious rite? The circumcision is meant to be taking part in a convenant with the God of Israel. If you find out otherwise i would be interested.

A moyl would not be any more qualified doing an adult circumcision than doing it yourself. You know they have no expereince circumcising adult males, which is a far different operation than doing an infant. Some moyls just use their fingernails to snip away the foreskin of a baby. Some moyls screw up badly and cut off more than the skin because they don't look to see if the foreskin has separated from the cock head. They also don't stitch the skin, as you must with an adult male, and the pain for an aduilt is tremendous whereas a baby doesn't feel it. I think I 'd ask my barber to do it before asking a moyl.

[bobov (imported)]

Leon's penis is truly more interesting than ethics! And he is indeed the only interested party.

Moyl/moel/mohel - I've seen all three spellings. It's a phonetic spelling of a Hebrew word, so several versions are all correct. Leon, I know no one in England (except you), so I can't be of much help. Yankee Masha seems to know much more about how mohels work than I do, so I defer to him. My personal experience is limited to one time, when mine was the infant penis, so there is little I can say. Yankee Masha is right that they are carrying out a religious ritual, which I mentioned as well, but a few might be liberal enough to lend a hand, or even personally interested.

[jcat (imported)]

I circumcised myself years ago, It did bleed a fair bit, however I just applied antiseptic cream and wrapped it all up, the cream stopped the dressing sticking to the dried blood.

End result well I wish I'd cut the lot off!!

Seriously, I was a bit weak for a day or two, it took a while to heal and I had to change the dressing about 4 times a day.

The biggest discomfort was the scar afterwards, it took ages to soften and made my cock itch a lot.

Having done all that I would reccomend a doctor, I circumcised myself becasue I was in prison at the time and wanted the skin off. My advice go to a doctor!

[jcat (imported)]

yankee masha sent me this private message, I eplied but he has so many messages that his mailbox is full, so I have posted it here and hope it helps anyone interested.

J Cat

Hi jcat, I got two questions for you: I'm sending a private message because you might not want to share this at all or maybe not everyone.

How did you manage to get the stuff together in prison to circ yourself? Did the guards get wind of it? Were you able to get medical attention or were you on your own?

I ask because i am trying to get a picture of how it works outside of a medical office.

Next question, I've thought of doing myself, at least to make a notch so it hangs looser, but would like to know how you cut the thing off, and how you managed the pain? Did you cut around the sahft , or bring the skin up closed and slice it away in one move the way some professionals do it.

The most important thing: Did it heal up without stitches?

Hi yankee masha, Thanks for your message. It was a long time ago and I am trying to recall, I used clean T Shirts for dressings, and anti-septic cream available via the pharmacy.

To cut I used a very sharp hobby knife and I pulled the foreskin over the top and just sliced it off, yes it hurt, not a huge amount, but it did hurt and it bled a lot, initially.

it healed without stiches, I actually did not cut enough skin off and I should have cut more in line with the angle of the base of the glans. Since I plan to have the lot off eventually I won't try again!!

I would urge caution in a DIY job I was lucky and could have got a terrible infection. If I was doing it now I would use the petroleum guaze dressings and lots of Savlon cream, the problem isthat the wound dries and everytime you change the dressing it opens up again. What happened to me is that the cream kept the scab soft and creamy, almost like puss and it gradually healed.

One other thing is that everytime you piss there is a danger of infection and you have to clean up well to ensure it all stays clean.

Please be very careful. My advice is go to a doctor. You can post this if you wish to the group. I am a bit new here and I am not sure how to. Information is important. Thanks again for your message it was my first here. I don't get a lot of time to visit here. Take care Hey I could not post this because your mailbox is full so I will try and post it on the board.

Jcat