Trying to clear up a few uncertainties before starting Chem Castration

[ProsperS (imported)]

Hi All,

I've decided it's finally time to try Chem Castration for the first time, with a view of getting an initial relatively temporary taste of how it feels to be a Eunuch, whilst hopefully remaining fully reversible. It's something I feel I have to try, and there is a good window of opportunity time-wise coming up soon. For info, I have no interest in feminisation only the effect of shutting down the testicles (though would be glad of some of the expected side effects such as less body hair and shrinkage).

I Wanted to just ask a few things - firstly I've done a lot of reading trying to discern the differences between the various meds on offer. I realise they may work in different ways, but the end result seems to be largely very similar. I was hoping people could give any breakdown of why I should look at one medication over another particularly e.g. why would Androcur suit better than e.g. bicalutamide.

Otherwise I had thought to start with 100mg per day of Androcur from inhousepharmacy delivering to Switzerland. The alternative would be to start on a higher dose for a week to shut things down and and reduce relatively quickly (which seems to work well for some people too).

Any advice will be gratefully received.

[WheelyFixed]

Androcur is not FDA approved in the US, so isn't an option if doing medically supervised care (which is highly recommended!) so I did my chem castration w/ Lupron injections... Reportedly Lupron is one of the preferred drugs because it has minimal side effects, but it's expensive if not covered by insurance, and is hard to get outside the medical system...

I assume since you mention dealing w/ Inhouse, that you are looking at doing this w/o medical supervision? This isn't really a great idea, if there are other choices, do you have any options available to you? (I.e. have you talked w/ a local transgender center / clinic?) With the release of the WPATH SOC v8, there are now standards and care options explicitly given for those of us interested in being eunuchs...

What I've heard about Androcur is that it can have some serious side effects, including a potential for liver damage, especially if taken in large doses for significant lengths of time... The best advice I seem to have seen is to take a largish dose (and IIRC, 100mg is very large) for just long enough to shut things down, and then reduce it to the minimum needed to keep things turned off... This is one of the areas that medical supervision can help with as they can do things like blood tests and other monitoring to track your progress...

Good luck on your journey

WheelyFixed

[Nathan74 (imported)]

Hi All,

I've decided it's finally time to try Chem Castration for the first time, with a view of getting an initial relatively temporary taste of how it feels to be a Eunuch, whilst hopefully remaining fully reversible. It's something I feel I have to try, and there is a good window of opportunity time-wise coming up soon. For info, I have no interest in feminisation only the effect of shutting down the testicles (though would be glad of some of the expected side effects such as less body hair and shrinkage).

I Wanted to just ask a few things - firstly I've done a lot of reading trying to discern the differences between the various meds on offer. I realise they may work in different ways, but the end result seems to be largely very similar. I was hoping people could give any breakdown of why I should look at one medication over another particularly e.g. why would Androcur suit better than e.g. bicalutamide.

Otherwise I had thought to start with 100mg per day of Androcur from inhousepharmacy delivering to Switzerland. The alternative would be to start on a higher dose for a week to shut things down and and reduce relatively quickly (which seems to work well for some people too).

Any advice will be gratefully received.

I've only tried Depo Provera and Androcur. Depo had the least side affects, and I don't remember getting hot flashes, just some chills in the beginning. Androcur is stronger and better overall if you really want to know what it's like. For depo provera I did two injections at once, then another one in two weeks and then it's once a month. You don't feel much of a difference for a good 6 weeks. It's rather gentle on the body but it takes a lot longer to feel castrated and I'm not sure if it does it completely. You would have to look at some really old posts to see if anyone got any lab work while on it.

With Androcur start with 100 mg and stay there until you T is down to nothing, at least 4-6 weeks. Then if you want you can try dropping to 50mg per day. The less that you take the fewer side affects you will experience when it comes to Androcur. It also gets better after a few months of being on it. If it's just a test drive don't go over 6 months, or your testicles might not recover.

There are clearly better drugs if you can find them. Triptorelin is much better option if you can find it. It's a 90 day injection. I feel better surgically castrated than chemically castrated because of the medication, so it's not the perfect test drive but it's close.

[ProsperS (imported)]

Thanks hugely to both, both really useful answers.

So to respond and add a bit more, I'm a little stuck partly due to language barriers, and partly as my medical insurance is arranged through my company - so as yet I dare not risk putting anything on it. WheelyFixed you do highlight probably quite rightly that I need to seek more help, and you've spurred me to at least look into it. From my searches so far, the support groups/trans centres in my area are geared towards adolescents, which I am not, and likewise in French, which I am not comfortable in. That said I will look further into it - maybe there is something out there that would be a start. Though I'm aware of SOC8 and the realisation I am exploring the MtE identity - I honestly didn't put two and two together that a trans clinic/organisation therefore actually where I need to go! Likewise medical supervision here will mean psychological tests which I am definitely not keen to do at this stage under the circumstances.

As for my planned trial, to start with I would wish only to try for 1-3 months depending on how it feels and affects me this first time - knowing that it would give me no more than an initial taster and not the long-term trial I would want before physical castration. For now I want to minimise the risk of doing any lasting damage - and if it's something that ends up fitting as I hope, then I will have to look at further trials and/or more professional help, on what is a much longer path. Thanks Nathan for sharing your experience too - the term I'm looking at tends to sway me away from injectable medicines at this time (plus I have no idea how to get hold of any without professional help), but do take on board your comments regarding Androcur.

Has anyone experienced or know the difference regarding Bicalutamide?

[WheelyFixed]

I haven't seen a lot on Bicalutamide, but my recollection is that there were reasons it was not very popular, I think because it didn't work as well and had more side effects... It might be worth doing a search here... I also like to suggest the "transfeminine science" website as they have a lot of information which is more focused on the MtF folks, but is often relevant to us, and definitely hard science based... (there is not any real big difference between MtE and MtF in early transition...)

If language is an issue with local centers, you may be able to find something online, I know there are some online services that reportedly have been useful for folks in areas that are lacking in local services or have problem politics - I think one is called Plume?

Dealing w/ insurers and employers is definitely a problem for some, it might be worth checking on just what data gets shared - no idea what the rules are where you live, but I know there are a lot of confidentiality restrictions in the US... My understanding is that the insurance company isn't supposed to tell employers much beyond the size of their bill, unless it is directly work related. There are also limits on what the doctors are supposed to be able to tell the insurance company...

I have strong aversion to dealing with shrinks but I found the experience extremely low hassle - I got the initial chemical castration via 'informed consent' conversation with the TG doc, and didn't need to see any sort of mental health people.... When I told them I wanted the surgery, I had to get two letters, and had to have a couple of telehealth appointments w/ shrinks that I was referred to by the TG center. This meant that they were used to dealing w/ gender identity and sympathetic, so basically it was simply a question of convincing them I was 'sane' (as in 'not obviously crazy'...) and knew what I was talking about... I think the first appointment was a little over 30 minutes, and the second was about 10. The first was basically a repeat of the informed consent discussion I'd had with the doc, and the second guy basically said he had looked at the case notes from the first one, and agreed... Much less of an ordeal than I was expecting.

WheelyFixed

[fhunter]

Bicalutamide blocks testosterone/DHT receptors, without affecting (at least initially) testosterone levels. Lupron works "higher up" in feedback loop and reduces testosterone/estrogen levels directly.

So - bicalutamide may increase levels of estrogen, at least initially. Not sure about long term.

From wikipedia:

Blockade of the AR by bicalutamide in the pituitary gland and hypothalamus results in prevention of the negative feedback of androgens on the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis (HPG axis) in males and consequent disinhibition of pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion.[109] This, in turn, results in an increase in circulating LH levels and activation of the gonadal production of testosterone and by extension production of estradiol.[190] Levels of testosterone have been found to increase 1.5- to 2-fold (59–97% increase) and levels of estradiol about 1.5- to 2.5-fold (65–146% increase) in men treated with 150 mg/day bicalutamide monotherapy.[31][32][33] In addition to testosterone and estradiol, there are smaller increases in concentrations of DHT, sex hormone-binding globulin, and prolactin.[33] Estradiol levels with bicalutamide monotherapy are similar to those in the low-normal premenopausal female range while testosterone levels generally remain in the high end of the normal male range.

[ProsperS (imported)]

Thanks again both, again very helpful. Sounds like bucalutamide is probably not the way to go.

More importantly I had no idea about such online docs e.g.

plume, which is US based, but seems there may be European equivalents available. Gives me a way to start, thank you - and certainly have added it to my list of things to do/research into.!

Also I will confirm exactly how the medical insurance works, but I believe where I am i have to submit the bills through my company. Tbh it's been so long since I've seen any doc...

[kazman0608 (imported)]

I haven’t been on here for quite a few years. Last time I was on here there were links to online pharmacies that ship to US, I’m in Canada but they don’t ship here but I live at the Canada/US border so I’ve no trouble shipping there and picking it up. Just wondering which medication can give the fastest results. When it comes to taking pills I really have the tendency to forget. I want to run a trial chem cast but wondering about intramuscular meds, ive seen one link to a German site that had androcur depot. Sometimes I feel frustrated with some hyper sexuality and would like to try being calm for a trial period.

[Andalusian (imported)]

bicalutamide may increase levels of estrogen, at least initially. Not sure about long term.

Bicalutamide can be used on its own but it will only limit testosterone! Estrogens won't go up for long. If one wants them to be higher, supplementing is needed!

[WheelyFixed]

I haven’t been on here for quite a few years. Last time I was on here there were links to online pharmacies that ship to US, I’m in Canada but they don’t ship here but I live at the Canada/US border so I’ve no trouble shipping there and picking it up. Just wondering which medication can give the fastest results. When it comes to taking pills I really have the tendency to forget. I want to run a trial chem cast but wondering about intramuscular meds, ive seen one link to a German site that had androcur depot. Sometimes I feel frustrated with some hyper sexuality and would like to try being calm for a trial period.

I'm not sure how many of those online "no prescription needed" pharmacies are still functional, I've heard that they have tightened some of the regulations and made them less useful. I know there have also been several posts here saying that there seems to be an increasing problem w/ counterfeit meds from at least some of the online pharmacies...

My Lupron experience was that it did give very fast results, in that the first 30 day shot took me from low T to 'undetectable'. It was also so gentle that I was wondering if had worked at all until I got the test result back... In retrospect I think I may have had some hot flashes and night sweats, but I'm not positive, as it was high summer and our HVAC system broke about the same time, so it wasn't clear if I was having a hot flash, or being just plain hot...

I think Lupron is one of the best options in terms of effectiveness w/ minimal bad side effects. Downside is I've never heard of anyone getting it outside the medical system, and it is reportedly expensive unless your insurance covers it...

WheelyFixed