Bad news in Germany

[Neutrum260725]

The german „Bundes-Sozial-Gericht“ (Federal Social Court) judged that Health Insurance in Germany do not have to pay for gender operations.

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Anspruch-a ... 76969.html

[manmanman (imported)]

As usual in Germany, it's a bit more complicated than that.

The court said in its decision, that because of a landmark ruling by the Federal Constitutional Court, which basically introduced "diverse" as a gender option in Germany, specific treatments and surgeries for transsexual and non-binary persons need to be re-evaluated by a joint committee of doctors and statutory health insurance providers. These providers cover everything, that is "medically necessary", and the joint committee decides what is and what isn't.

The court also said, that whilst it can't order that, it urges health insurance providers to pay for ongoing treatments as a matter of trust in the meantime.

In my view that's a reasonable decision, because legally changing one's gender has become much simpler in Germany and most of all doesn't require gender reassignment surgery anymore. Now GRS isn't legally necessary anymore, it should be re-evaluated if it's generally medically necessary or rather case-by-case only, eg. based on exams by qualified psychologists.

In this particular case the plaintiff acted rather unfortunate in my opinion. Given how the German system works, it's never a good idea to have surgery and pay for yourself, handing in the invoice to insurance provider later. Always ask first and if they refuse, go to an ombudsman or go to court. Especially the ombudsmen have long lists of cases, in which the insurances first refused to pay, but did it anyway in the end.

[Paolo]

Text of the article:

People who feel neither as a man nor a woman must bear the costs of any operations themselves in

the future. The Federal Social Court refers to a judgment of the Federal Constitutional Court on the

third sex. This means that the judges shall shift from their previous case law to transsexuals.

So-called non-binary persons who feel neither as a man nor a woman are entitled to sexually aligned

operations at the expense of statutory health insurance. This was decided by the Federal Social Court

(BSG) in Kassel. The reasoning also results in an end to the claim for costs awarded to court for

transsexuals. However, BSG President Rainer Schlegel appealed to the health insurance companies to

pay at least started operations of transsexuals for reasons of trust.

The complaining person was born biologically female. However, she does not feel like a woman or a man.

In 2019, she therefore had her first name changed and registered under gender "without indication". In

December 2019, she also applied for the assumption of costs for the operational removal of her breasts

at her health insurance company. She suffered from being perceived as a woman because of her breasts

she had explained. The cash register refused and explained whether an operation reduces the pressure

of suffering was not clear at all. The person then had the operation carried out at his own expense and

sued at a reimbursement of the cost of 5305 euros.

As before the Baden-Württemberg State Social Court, the complaint was now not successful before the

BSG. At the same time, the Kassel judges also moved away from their jurisprudence to transsexuals. The

health insurance companies therefore had to pay for gender-equitable operations.

Diversity of identities forces to reassess

The reason given by the BSG declared that this case law was "based on the clearly definable

appearances of the female and male sex". In contrast, new medical guidelines based on the current

scientific findings include "the diversity of all gender identities - including non-inbinary - gender

identities". This also corresponds to the case law of the Federal Constitutional Court on the so-called

third sex.

Against this background, interventions in the healthy body of transsexual or non-binary persons are to be

regarded as a "new method of treatment". It is therefore the first task of the Joint Federal Committee of

Cash registers no longer have to pay: eligible for gender-like surgeries - ..

. https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Anspruch-a ... leichende-...

1 of 2 10/21/2023, 11:41 AM

Physicians and Health Insurance, which decides on the catalogue of benefits for the statutory health

insurance, "to assess the appropriate application of the new method as well as its effectiveness and

quality against irreversible mistaken decisions to protect the persons concerned against irreversible

mistaken decisions".

"The Senate is considering protection of trust for treatments that have already begun on transsexual

treatments," the SPA concluded. As a rule, health insurance companies fully comply with such an appeal

by the supreme social court.

Source: ntv.de, mau/AFP

[Cygnusx1 (imported)]

That is almost as some of the southern states in the United States passing laws to no longer recognize mixed marriages

Apparently if one person in the. Couple is white and thr other is black or Mexican or any other race rather than white they should not be married. I just wonder where the will draw the line on what a white person is defined as.

[Valery_V (imported)]

That is almost as some of the southern states in the United States passing laws to no longer recognize mixed marriages

Apparently if one person in the. Couple is white and thr other is black or Mexican or any other race rather than white they should not be married. I just wonder where the will draw the line on what a white person is defined as.

I hope this is fake or just someone's very, very bad joke!

[Paolo]

As far as I can find online, there are concerns involving same-sex and interracial marriages, after comments made some Supreme Court Justices since the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

We will NOT get into a political debate about this topic on this site!

The Respect for Marriage Act addresses this, as well other bills and such concerning other subjects.

As far as I can find, no State has tried to ban or not recognize interracial marriages.

You can read a bit more here, as I'm not posting the whole text:

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/19/11122132 ... x-marriage

[WheelyFixed]

I agree w/ Paolo about not engaging in political discussion, but I'd add that CURRENTLY there are NO enforceable laws in any state prohibiting mixed race marriages, and there are existing Supreme Court rulings that prohibit such laws.

Current legislation at the federal level and existing legal precedent also protect same-sex marriages...

Since the overturning of Roe v Wade, there is some concern about similar logic being applied to marriage etc. but IMHO it would be a harder thing to do since there is a Constitutional requirement for states to respect each others legal contracts, so if a marriage is legal in any one state, it is supposed to be honored by the rest of them...

WheelyFixed