If you had a choice...

[erikboy (imported)]

Well, I've been thinking a lot again. I have refined some of them

Should I be proud that I am what I am? I mean my sexuality and gender.

I don't know. Socially I do not enjoy what I am. I do not feel like I can express my sexuality and gender freely without creating confusion and misunderstanding.

The only thing I enjoy is sexual pleasure at times. Which I hate again. Also I never felt like I am male or female. I wear male clothes only because they fit me best due to my physical appeareance. But I do not wear anything that is considered very masculine. Hats for example. I do not like them.

I have always thought that if I had a possibility to choose my gender and sexuality I would have chosen to be a problem free heterosexual cisgender male. Or even female. It really does not matter male or female until you are happy with that.

Then comes gay pride parades etc. I understand from where it stem: To be proud about what you are, feel free, and signal your true identity to the surroundings through your appeareance, clothing and behaviour. Being proud of being gay or whatever else, is an attempt to heal or compensate your everyday suppression and confusion that you might create with your whatever gender appeareance.

In reality I am not proud at all, about what I am. And I feel that cisgender heterosexuals also do not feel like they need to be proud about their sexuality or gender id. Because it is what they are. You aren't particularily pround that you have 2 functional legs. Pride comes with disabilities. Being proud of being deaf, etc. It kind of heals bad feelings from disability. But at the same time stresses that same disability. What a vicious cycle!

I know that I am different. If other people accepted me from my childhood what I was... no need to hide anything about myself. No need to be proud about anything.

What do you think? What would you change in you, if you had a choice?

[magusuk89 (imported)]

There's a definition of pride that is 'awareness of one's dignity', which I find useful in explaining what Pride is in the festival sense. It doesn't mean satisfied outward projection of a competitive accomplishment, but a holistic harmonisation of reality with an affirmation of dignity. What is dignity? Worthiness, value, acceptance, belonging, respect...

If something about you causes you to value and respect yourself less, it pays to ask why.

There are two kinds of action and adaptation we can make in the world: autoplastic and alloplastic. Autoplastic adaptations are where we try to change our own worldview to solve problems. However, there is a limit to our sphere of influence, and 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing it, doesn't go away' (Philip K. Dick). When other people or the material world are the source of the problem, no amount of introspection or attitude adjustment will sort you out. A condemned prisoner cannot think their way out of prison and execution -- the consolation of philosophy (cf. Boethius) is about how you cope and spiritually prepare for death, nothing more.

Pride as a festival has both autoplastic and alloplastic facets to it. People try to enjoy a setting where they are, for once, a majority, and experience less minority stress. This website serves the same function for our community. On the alloplastic side, Pride is a protest, an embassy, an opportunity to finish the sentence without being talked over.

Your connection of gender and sexuality to disability is an interesting one. I have two congenital conditions (Crohn's Disease and the testicular deformity) that are baked into my genes and cannot be wished away. In both cases it would be foolish to suggest I could be at peace with the pain, let alone enjoy it. But the question of whether I'd change it if I had a choice is a difficult one.

At this stage of life I would not be the same person had I not had the experiences and identity-work I have. At a deeper level, someone with a tweaked genome would not be the same organism in a profound way. Thus, I must accept that the material world is a traitorous thing. For me, harmony comes from my Neoplatonism. I look to the World of the Forms. In the World of the Forms, the pain and imperfection of the material world is important, but ultimately discard-able and breakable, like an eggshell, or the mould of a bronze statue.

So really, what are you incubating, or what statue are you casting?

Looking outward, I recommend the classic work of applied sociology on the subject: Erving Goffman, Stigma: notes on the management of spoiled identity (New York, 1986).

[WheelyCurious]

Minor Pride mystery, perhaps.... Like may places, we have those 'Amber Alert' display signs on our highways.... Rather than actually displaying actually useful information (like time to major exits) when there is no alert, our state uses them to display 'driver safety' messages...

The latest has been "Happy Pride, Don't text & drive" - no problem w/ either sentiment, but why the combination? Do LGBT+ folks have more of a compulsion to text than straight folks? Is texting a big part of Pride?

I'm used to seeing holiday messages about drinking and driving, but holidays like New Years are traditionally associated w/ excessive drinking so there is a reason to link them... But what links Pride and texting???

WheelyCurious

[Losethem (imported)]

Then comes gay pride parades etc. I understand from where it stem: To be proud about what you are, feel free, and signal your true identity to the surroundings through your appeareance, clothing and behaviour. Being proud of being gay or whatever else, is an attempt to heal or compensate your everyday suppression and confusion that you might create with your whatever gender appeareance.

In reality I am not proud at all, about what I am. And I feel that cisgender heterosexuals also do not feel like they need to be proud about their sexuality or gender id. Because it is what they are. You aren't particularily pround that you have 2 functional legs. Pride comes with disabilities. Being proud of being deaf, etc. It kind of heals bad feelings from disability. But at the same time stresses that same disability. What a vicious cycle!

Gay pride is a lot deeper than that, it's not about parades to display how proud we are, it's about commemorating what happened in the late 1960's, when we were dismissed, harassed, and arrested for simply existing. Gay pride was quite literally a riot the first time it was "held." In 1969, the NYPD was quite keen on raiding gay bars and other establishments where gay people assembled, arresting those therein, and making their lives a living hell. The gay people, drag queens included, were victimized by the police one too many times so in June 1969, when the Stonewall bar in NYC was raided by the NYPD, gay people in the city quite literally rioted. They had simply had enough, and were not going to take it anymore.

June being pride month isn't a coincidence. I hope you now understand it's a lot more than what you said. While it's an element, it's a significantly minor one. The true reason we have pride is to remain visible, and serve as a reminder we won't be silenced. Saying it's anything else diminishes the significance.

Sadly, we're having this horseshit which caused the 1969 Stonewall uprising start up again in the US in 2023. Just over 50 flippin' years after we had to riot to demand our basic human dignity. I'm exhausted, but not so much I won't defend myself against this scourge descending upon our community. I presently live in a state that but for one vote in our state senate preventing Florida style harassment, is on the verge of making my life a hellscape.

Strangely we have a lot of people here in Virginia with Gasden flag license plates on their cars, which are an optional issue to register your car and show how tread upon they feel. These are yellow with the Gasden "Don't tread on me" flag. None of them can see the irony in their demands. For a group who feels so tread upon, they're having no problem lacing up their boots and stepping on my neck.

I'm hoping there's a sale on bricks soon. I'm starting to feel like we need to stock up and prepare to party like it's 1969.

I won't go any further, because we don't allow politics on the EA. All I know is I'm glad I'm a dual-national and can get out if things get bad enough.

[kristoff]

It is nice to be a dual national. At least I have a place where I can escape if the need arises.!

[magusuk89 (imported)]

Minor Pride mystery, perhaps.... Like may places, we have those 'Amber Alert' display signs on our highways.... Rather than actually displaying actually useful information (like time to major exits) when there is no alert, our state uses them to display 'driver safety' messages...

The latest has been "Happy Pride, Don't text & drive" - no problem w/ either sentiment, but why the combination? Do LGBT+ folks have more of a compulsion to text than straight folks? Is texting a big part of Pride?

I'm used to seeing holiday messages about drinking and driving, but holidays like New Years are traditionally associated w/ excessive drinking so there is a reason to link them... But what links Pride and texting???

WheelyCurious

It is probably just sloppy thinking at some highways department... But on the whole there is an image of the LGBT community that we are 'more online' than cisgender straight people. There may be some truth in this, as endemic and autocthonic minorities (LGBT people, disabled people, dentists...) do not have a logical centre at which to recognise an origin point (I suppose dentists have training, but you get what I mean - people are spread out). The internet, phones, literature have always provided a lifeline for LBGT networking, solidarity and community. However the implication that we LGBT folks are less safe on the road would of course be slanderous!

[WheelyCurious]

It is probably just sloppy thinking at some highways department... But on the whole there is an image of the LGBT community that we are 'more online' than cisgender straight people. There may be some truth in this, as endemic and autocthonic minorities (LGBT people, disabled people, dentists...) do not have a logical centre at which to recognise an origin point (I suppose dentists have training, but you get what I mean - people are spread out). The internet, phones, literature have always provided a lifeline for LBGT networking, solidarity and community. However the implication that we LGBT folks are less safe on the road would of course be slanderous!

I have no idea, although one could argue that there is a certain amount of association between computers and being gay going back to Alan Turing (who was treated so shamefully by the British Gov't) However I've seen them have anti-text & drive campaigns at other times as well, so perhaps it was just a case of doing don't text and drive for a holiday that wasn't already known for drinking in order to get a bit of variety...

Of course it's also a government thing, and when have governments ever made much sense???

WheelyCurios

[erikboy (imported)]

What would you change in you if you had a chance?

That question is not easy one of course. It is like the misconception about castration. Most people think that you continue to want to have sex, only you can not get hard. It is very hard to most to understand that with loss of interest in sex, you wouldn't care.

The same way it would be very hard for me to imagine myself as a stright person. Much less thoughts about sex, weird problems, philosophy that actually have made me better and more understanding person. May be I would have become an average redneck. Happy one, but still a redneck. May be halfredneck. Who knows.

May I bring some parallels with LGBT community and deaf community... I see some similarities there.

Both think they have no disability.

Both think there is a special culture there.

Both are against "cure" at organisational level.

Both are proud of their "specialty".

Both have more limited contacts with "outer world", than average people.

Community remains very important to them.

Both have pride parades.

etc.

When "cure" arrived to deaf (not full cure, but a Cochlear brain implant). Some felt they are attacked.

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While many people object to cochlear implant activation videos on the basis that they are sensationalizing and reductive, others oppose them for being oppressive and offensive. For these critics, deafness is not defined by the lack of ability to hear, but rather, by a distinct cultural identity of which they are proud. They believe the word “deaf ” with a lowercase “d” refers to “the audiologic lack of hearing,” while the word “Deaf ” with an uppercase “D” refers to a cultural identity.8 Members of the Deaf community share essential ingredients of culture: a language, a history, institutions such as schools and clubs, sports, art, and movies. Due to these shared establishments, many Deaf individuals primarily socialize among themselves and “have limited social interactions with people from the majority culture.”8 Ninety-five percent of Deaf marriages involve two deaf partners.8 Because their deafness allows them to be a member of this supportive community, many Deaf people report that they do not want the ability to hear.9 According to the NAD, “Deaf people like being Deaf, want to be Deaf, and are proud of their Deafness”.7

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6913847/

Imagine if "gay cure" or "eunuch cure" arrived... It might happen, in some future, as brain science is advancing. (although there are many ethical problems in such "cure", as with any other brain manipulation that modifies personality permanently)

Regarding Gay parades.. I know what happened in New York 1969. It is now 54 years soon. Over half century. Things have changed a lot. And they are going to change in the future.

These original NYC Gay parades used to be dominated by AMAB, modern pride parades are dominated by AFAB. Every new generation will redefine parade.

[Losethem (imported)]

Imagine if "gay cure" or "eunuch cure" arrived... It might happen, in some future, as brain science is advancing. (although there are many ethical problems in such "cure", as with any other brain manipulation that modifies personality permanently)

Regarding Gay parades.. I know what happened in New York 1969. It is now 54 years soon. Over half century. Things have changed a lot. And they are going to change in the future.

These original NYC Gay parades used to be dominated by AMAB, modern pride parades are dominated by AFAB. Every new generation will redefine parade.

Let's see, first being flippant about what gay pride month is about, and now speaking of curing gay people. Yes, I'm proving your point vis-a-vis "cures." I don't need curing, and I wouldn't accept such if it came to be. There is NOTHING wrong with me.

I was polite with my first response, but at this point I'm wondering just how long you're going to keep digging this hole.

[Valery_V (imported)]

What would you change in you if you had a chance?

...

Imagine if "gay cure" or "eunuch cure" arrived... It might happen, in some future, as brain science is advancing. (although there are many ethical problems in such "cure", as with any other brain manipulation that modifies personality permanently)

...

Such "cures" do not exist and cannot be created (this fact has been proven historically since the Middle Ages).

Only physical or physiological correction is possible...

Attempts to "cure" led, as a rule, to the transformation of a person into a "vegetable".