Crazy WPATH question

[BillyBlogs (imported)]

Hi All,

Last Friday I finally got to meet with the psychologist who's going to be writing my WPATH letter for surgery. At the end of the session, she asked me to talk about something she referred to as my "transition" over the last year. To be honest, I just sort of sat there with this bemused expression while I sort of carped. I was rather taken aback, and lost for words.

In the end I don't think I was addressing what she was asking about, so she suggested I think about the matter as I had to have some sort of response for the WPATH protocol.

I think I should answer this like any good politician would. Answer the question I think should have been asked instead of the impertinent one that was. So, I have thought about the matter, and I'm going to protest. If I'm shelling out a weeks' pay* for an hours time, I don't think it should fall to me to re-interpret these questions. Nor am I happy about having a fortnight wasted on supposedly thinking about something that never occurred.

OK. That's the rant off my chest. How on earth do I address this? I'm not going to look any different in the future, and I haven't since I figured out I have no gender either. I'm completely out with everybody in my world that I want to know at the present, and don't have any issues. I am planning to be marked with a little tattoo that I hope will announce my eunuch status in a reasonably subtle way once I've been 'fixed'.

There was no transition period. A trans-sexual must also have the same experience, when they wake up to their true identity. They know what fits properly long before they're considering making a "transition". The difference is I'm not making any transition in appearance or mannerism. All I'm doing is moving up a rank in the choir** and getting on with life.

I think I should reiterate how the recognition of my having no gender has transformed my life, and that this is the only transition that has or will take place in my life. It's been nothing but a positive boon to me, and that's what matters. The people who matter to me are all well aware of my gender identity, and that I'm on the road to getting the snip.

Tell me what you think. How do you think I ought to address the matter of my missing transition?

* I only get two days work a week.

**There was a joke about a boy who tried to leap a barbed wire fence. After the attempt he was moved to the soprano section of the choir.

[Valery_V (imported)]

Congratulations on passing the interview.

(It's probably good that your psychologist is a woman).

I wish you good luck in fulfilling your desire in the future.

[dee2essohkay (imported)]

Hi All,

Last Friday I finally got to meet with the psychologist who's going to be writing my WPATH letter for surgery. At the end of the session, she asked me to talk about something she referred to as my "transition" over the last year. To be honest, I just sort of sat there with this bemused expression while I sort of carped. I was rather taken aback, and lost for words.

In the end I don't think I was addressing what she was asking about, so she suggested I think about the matter as I had to have some sort of response for the WPATH protocol.

I think I should answer this like any good politician would. Answer the question I think should have been asked instead of the impertinent one that was. So, I have thought about the matter, and I'm going to protest. If I'm shelling out a weeks' pay* for an hours time, I don't think it should fall to me to re-interpret these questions. Nor am I happy about having a fortnight wasted on supposedly thinking about something that never occurred.

OK. That's the rant off my chest. How on earth do I address this? I'm not going to look any different in the future, and I haven't since I figured out I have no gender either. I'm completely out with everybody in my world that I want to know at the present, and don't have any issues. I am planning to be marked with a little tattoo that I hope will announce my eunuch status in a reasonably subtle way once I've been 'fixed'.

There was no transition period. A trans-sexual must also have the same experience, when they wake up to their true identity. They know what fits properly long before they're considering making a "transition". The difference is I'm not making any transition in appearance or mannerism. All I'm doing is moving up a rank in the choir** and getting on with life.

I think I should reiterate how the recognition of my having no gender has transformed my life, and that this is the only transition that has or will take place in my life. It's been nothing but a positive boon to me, and that's what matters. The people who matter to me are all well aware of my gender identity, and that I'm on the road to getting the snip.

Tell me what you think. How do you think I ought to address the matter of my missing transition?

* I only get two days work a week.

**There was a joke about a boy who tried to leap a barbed wire fence. After the attempt he was moved to the soprano section of the choir.

i was told by a trans friend that telling the gate keepers what they want to hear is best. i have been struggling with that notion since she told me this. it must have worked for her. she is m to f and she’s been transitioning for the past 3 years. strangely she and i seem to have a lot of similarities though she clearly want to be a woman and i want to be somewhere between eunuch and woman (very simply put).

I do see her point. there is an organization that determined “this is how things are” and this is what your requirements are” so it does stand to reason that you tell them that you like things the way they are and you will meet (or already did meet) those requirements.

then, for me, principle kicks in. do i want to lie and meet the requirements or be true to myself and maybe get dismissed. it is easy to believe in yourself and that you have what it takes to convince those on the “other side” that you are right. my experience: i was three times told by the psychiatrist gate keeper that i do not qualify and never will. once that happens you either give up or keep on fighting and it may become a matter of how much you want to fight. that psychiatrist told me that all the professionals on the team were on the same page but the next day (maybe the day after - don’t remember for sure) i got a urologist to agree to the surgery provided i supply a couple letters and sign a form. but this process does wear you down. i was also helped by a fear of myself and what i might do if i could not get the surgery.

so i’d say, either tell them exactly what they want to hear (because you can always “change your mind later on”) or be prepared to stick with your principles and fight like hell until you get your way (on friendly terms - of course).

and just a point to add, i don’t know if i’ve transitioned at all ever. i never had friends and i still (aside from virtual) don’t have any. so finding a trans community of people who accept the new me doesn’t and never will exist so i could say i don’’t have that. on the other hand i can consider the people i’ve met on line who know about my orchi and so on and these then become my new friends which is a transition from having no one knowing about me to easily several people who know about my losing my sex and changing. that transition may be a matter of interpretation and then again, in trying to give them what they want, playing up your own change - as insignificant as you may think it is - may very well be what you need to say to make them happy. i hope this helps. and you mention you are out with everybody. focus on the time before you were out until the time that you were. no need to mention dates. that is your transition. forget that it seems minor. tell them how major it was for you.

[Losethem (imported)]

Hi All,

Last Friday I finally got to meet with the psychologist who's going to be writing my WPATH letter for surgery. At the end of the session, she asked me to talk about something she referred to as my "transition" over the last year. To be honest, I just sort of sat there with this bemused expression while I sort of carped. I was rather taken aback, and lost for words.

In the end I don't think I was addressing what she was asking about, so she suggested I think about the matter as I had to have some sort of response for the WPATH protocol.

I think I should answer this like any good politician would. Answer the question I think should have been asked instead of the impertinent one that was. So, I have thought about the matter, and I'm going to protest. If I'm shelling out a weeks' pay* for an hours time, I don't think it should fall to me to re-interpret these questions. Nor am I happy about having a fortnight wasted on supposedly thinking about something that never occurred.

OK. That's the rant off my chest. How on earth do I address this?

There's no way for me to say this without coming off like a complete jerk, so I'll just say it...

I've said it about a hundred times but I'll say it again. BE PATIENT. The standards of care are being updated and will be released soon, maybe even this month, but definitely by the end of 2022.

Eunuchs and non-binary people are in there. The pre-release version of the SOC 8 was available for a few weeks earlier this year, for everyone to see. Once the SOC 8 is officially published, it becomes the standard for WPATH. At that point, if your practitioner says you have to meet these requirements in SOC 7 to meet WPATH guidelines, you can then give them the SOC 8 sections to refer to, and ask why they are not up to date and are still unwilling to write you a support letter, when who you are is right there in the official and latest version of the SOC.

However, you need to be patient and wait for the SOC 8 to be published.

The amount of people in here lately lamenting they can't get what they want, after they've been told this is coming and insist on barreling forward immediately, is getting frustrating. We've been transparent in telling you to be patient and that help is on the way. But no, you all want it now, damn the consequences and disappointment which the SOC 8 update should be resolving for you.

Put another way, quit being stubborn and wait this out. It's coming... sooner than you think. EEESH!

[BillyBlogs (imported)]

I think there's a couple of things here.

First is even though I have read you talking about the new standard in various places, it just never occurred to me that what you were saying applied to me. Maybe that's to do with me being on the autism spectrum. Who can know? Anyway, it's a trait that's gotten me in deep poo before today, I can tell you.

I'm sorry you felt the need, but your reply did feel a bit shouty. Never-the-less, the message is through loud and clear. It must get a bit frustrating trying to get through to tête de bœuf such as me. Better that than being frustrated and annoyed though.

The other is more to do with how the question has been put to me, and by whom. This is my real complaint. You see, the rooms I'm going to claim to be gender specialists. I would have thought that the mismatch between the present standard and what I need was pretty obvious. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that perhaps there might have been a little bit of preparation in organising a set of questions that would have established my condition regarding any transition, rather than saying I need to say something about my transition over the last year, just like that.

With this, is that I would have thought that seeing I'm shelling out a weeks pay for an hour's time, I would be buying sufficient expertise for the psychiatrist to be able to make actual decisions. One of those might be that certain questions are not relevant and so will not be addressed in depth.

I was really disappointed when she hit me with it like that at the end of the session. It just smacked of reading a script instead of tailoring to suit the client.

With that, I think the best thing I can do from here is stop wasting time and money. I'll just wait until the SOC-8 comes out, and organise something then.



Gratis and meaningless, just because I could.

[Valery_V (imported)]

Une femme devrait être flattée, pas lui dire que ses services sont trop chers .

[WheelyCurious]

It may be a canned script of 'you must ask these questions...'

Basically the big difference between SOC 7 and 8 is that SOC 7 is purely binary, in that it assumes that anyone not happy with their birth gender MUST become the opposite gender completely 100%.... SOC 8 is much more flexible in that it allows for folks like us that want to be somewhere in the middle, including very explicit details about those of us that want to be eunuchs....

Don't complain to much about the canned script question - it seems almost every time I see a doctor or other care person, I get handed 'function surveys' that ask me about my ability to walk, climb stairs, and so on... It gets extra amusing / annoying when they ask if I get out of breath when doing these things.... (No, but it has nothing to do with my health...) I often wonder how much these sorts of surveys and my answers to them impact my health care....

Of course nothing matches the old Blood Donor forms that asked all the guys if they might be pregnant.....

WheelyCurious

[BillyBlogs (imported)]

Une femme devrait être flattée, pas lui dire que ses services sont trop chers .

Thank you very much, Valery. That was the good laugh I really needed.

[BillyBlogs (imported)]

Yeah, these scripted bullshit questionnaires are a dual edged thing. They represent an abdication of responsibility, and the usurpation of that responsibility by nameless faceless people.

The words guidelines and policy have gained far too much power in recent times. Guidelines are really railway tracks, and policy is law by another name, from the un-elected.

Rhubarb, rhubarb, GET OFF THE FUCKING LAWN. damn whipper snappers. mumble. They never ask relevant questions anyway. I'd go down to Canberra and give them a piece of my mind but it would leave me without any for myself.

But seriously, I am going to be asking why I'm answering questions that are on the brink of becoming irrelevant rather than getting everything in place ready for the onset of SOC-8. Or at least being offered the option with an explanation as to why a little wait later on if needed could be a lot better than not.

See, no matter how I look at this, I feel like I'm being a bit of a cash cow.

I think I should say one other thing. This is about getting surgery so my body is aligned with how my mind is. No matter what now, whether surgery or not, I am. I know how I am, and that can't be changed back. The surgery is important and I'm feeling mortality getting closer, so I'd like to crack on. But the most important part is that I know now.

[Losethem (imported)]

But seriously, I am going to be asking why I'm answering questions that are on the brink of becoming irrelevant rather than getting everything in place ready for the onset of SOC-8. Or at least being offered the option with an explanation as to why a little wait later on if needed could be a lot better than not. See, no matter how I look at this, I feel like I'm being a bit of a cash cow.

I'll once again be as polite as I can.

Why are you insisting on going full speed ahead with people who are clearly not going to help you until who you are is in front of them in the form of standards of care from WPATH? Once again you've been informed the new SOC is nearly published, yet you're getting frustrated that you're being a cash cow for others.

If that's how you feel, why are you going to continue to bang your head against the wall about this?

The new SOC, years in the making, is being published imminently. Quit torturing yourself and be a bit patient and wait for it to be published. At that point you'll have something to point the therapists to.

Seriously, you're making this harder on yourself than it needs to be.