An Opportunity to go "In Between" -- Thoughts?

[spookibus (imported)]

I suppose I should clarify what I want. I love my job, and I want mental clarity and decent energy to get through my days. I want to do away with the side effects of TRT, such as increased body hair and prostate symptoms. And I want to do so very discreetly. According to my research, normal male is 300-1000, normal female is 30-100 (the numbers vary by website). When I went on TRT 7 years ago, my T level was 125. I had ALL the worst effects of low T, including severe mental fog, terrible memory, insomnia, and no energy. I went on TRT in self defense. I go into an UTTER PANIC at the thought of going through that again. My masculinity comes from a bottle. My testes have atrophied to the point that they almost never descend and are almost certainly dead.

I'd like to see if a low dose of female hormones would help me, even though it means letting go of whatever remaining masculinity my psyche is hanging on to. I'm well versed on the reported effects of female hormones; the reversible changes can be reversed, and none of the permanent changes (sterility, for example) are a concern. I'm already monitored regularly for other health effects that female hormones can cause, so nothing would change there. Being a passable female is not a current goal for many reasons.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

[seanthomas (imported)]

My opinion is just that…..an opinion. I don’t offer it to change anyone’s mind, just as “food for thought”. Just consider the world is not all progressive minded people. The vast majority are socially conservative and a radical approach to them can be seen as a threat.

It’s the frog in the boiling water story. Throw the frog in boiling water and he jumps out. Raise the temperature slowly and you’ll get a boiled frog.

[WheelyCurious]

I suppose I should clarify what I want. I love my job, and I want mental clarity and decent energy to get through my days. I want to do away with the side effects of TRT, such as increased body hair and prostate symptoms. And I want to do so very discreetly. According to my research, normal male is 300-1000, normal female is 30-100 (the numbers vary by website). When I went on TRT 7 years ago, my T level was 125. I had ALL the worst effects of low T, including severe mental fog, terrible memory, insomnia, and no energy. I went on TRT in self defense. I go into an UTTER PANIC at the thought of going through that again. My masculinity comes from a bottle. My testes have atrophied to the point that they almost never descend and are almost certainly dead.

I'd like to see if a low dose of female hormones would help me, even though it means letting go of whatever remaining masculinity my psyche is hanging on to. I'm well versed on the reported effects of female hormones; the reversible changes can be reversed, and none of the permanent changes (sterility, for example) are a concern. I'm already monitored regularly for other health effects that female hormones can cause, so nothing would change there. Being a passable female is not a current goal for many reasons.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

I'm not a doc, so talk to yours, but there are some options that are supposed to give the physical and mental benefits of doing HRT using E instead of T, but without as much feminizing as regular E, so less obvious to outside observers - do a search here for Ralaxofine and Tamoxifene, a lot of discussion of both, though it appears Ralaxofine is slightly better...

It's a class of drugs called 'SERMS' that work on the idea that there are slight differences between the estrogen receptors in different parts of the body, and the ones mentioned (there may be others as well) trigger the receptors that do good things in the brain and for preventing osteoporosis, but don't trigger the ones that make your breasts grow....

I'm also wanting to try going on E as part of my next step on the journey, but want to continue to present as male, so don't want any more feminizing than I can help, so I'm hoping the doctor I'm working with will give me one of these or something similar...

WheelyCurious

[spookibus (imported)]

My opinion is just that…..an opinion. I don’t offer it to change anyone’s mind, just as “food for thought”. Just consider the world is not all progressive minded people. The vast majority are socially conservative and a radical approach to them can be seen as a threat.

It’s the frog in the boiling water story. Throw the frog in boiling water and he jumps out. Raise the temperature slowly and you’ll get a boiled frog.

Your blog is actually the reason I posted this. You posted something a few weeks ago that changed the way I think about my situation. I read your blog over the past few weeks from your recent posts and back several years. I thank you for posting on this site, and for commenting on my posts. I want a version of what you have achieved that fits into my world, which has its own constraints (such as NO ONE can know except maybe the wife).

[Stevenator_too (imported)]

I’ve been on HRT for almost two years. Herbal Estrogen much longer than that prior to

HRT. One thing I’ve noticed over the last year seems weird to me, is that how I’m still in male mode the vast majority of the time, anytime I’m around groups of men now I find it extremely intimidating. That kind of weirds me out.

I have always been at ease in such settings before, be it the hunting camp or whatever with the boys. Now? I don’t even like being around a group of guys, be it out in public or whatever. Too much High Test I just can’t handle anymore. I mean, I can pull it off, but it ain’t enjoyable.

[Cseriess (imported)]

Stevenator, your comments made me reflect. I am not castrated. I have been chemically castrated for periods over the last 5 years, but not at the moment. I work in two very different environments. The main one is mostly males and very A type people.i have done this for 40 something years, and was very typical of the personality. However, I got into a second career about 5 years ago. This is nearly all female. It is very caring and nurturing and I think I have met only two males in the position and one was an effeminate gay man. I much prefer being at my second job, although it doesn't pay enough to live,. I don't know wether my time castrated changed my emotional, mental state for good. Each time moving my personality permanently. I love the mental and emotional place being castrated takes me, and if it wasn't for the physical issues, I would be surgically castrated in a heartbeat. I start on spironolactone again tomorrow, and can hardly wait! I am sure each time my brain changes permanently. Perhaps it's just aging, who knows, but I don't think so.

[spookibus (imported)]

Brief follow-up: After several weeks of finding nothing, I did find an article that seanthomas said was out there. "In between" in increasingly a thing. This is comforting.

It's a simple enough google search, so I won't post a link. "Possibilities for nonbinary hormone treatment" will get you close.

I'm still considering doing a stealth half-transition. But I'm on several meds, and I had a blood test come back abnormal after trying Cimetidine, so I'm very spooked about anything oral that might cause liver issues.

[WheelyCurious]

It does sound like you need to be looking for a sympathetic / compatible doc that you can work with. I'd suggest reaching out to a TG center if there is one in your area. I have no idea where you are in the US, or what insurance you have, but it is likely that a doctor that is used to dealing with folks on the "TG spectrum" (I.e. wanting to change their equipment / mental state to some degree) will know the right language to use on insurance companies to get them to cover the costs.

Most plans now seem to have some level of mental health coverage, and the draft SOC 8 basically says the only effective treatment for 'gender disphoria' is chemical / surgical transition to whatever level the patient wants, so getting an 'official diagnosis' seems to be the magic key....

When I reached out to the TG center associated with the hospital system where I get my medical care, I had ZERO issues with getting the help I needed other than waiting for the doc to connect with my existing PCP and endocrinologist and work out a plan...

It is likely that a TG doc will be able to figure out a transition routine using drugs that are specifically intended for the purpose, as opposed to trying to tap into the side effects of a drug intended for a completely different purpose like Cimetidine (possibly something like the Lupron that I'm on now)

WheelyCurious

[justapup (imported)]

When I came out to my primary care provider in fall of 2020. I talked to him about feeling in between. Little did I know that things in Minnesota were in the works to allow such a transition for non-binary folks. Just 3 months after I started seeing my therapists to get my letters of support, some medical text was changed allowing M to non-binary transition without hormones. I was refused at first by an out of state Dr that my case was sent to for approval. A day after I was contacted by an ally in blue cross blue shield that went to some meetings and got my denial changed to approval.

With that said as I chatted with my new pcp(my original pcp moved back to Germany before my orchiectomy) she asked how I felt about my hormones. I mentioned not wanting to take testosterone and that I was considering hrt. She asked if I was wanting to transition to female and I stated I didn't know. She then asked me something I was not prepared for, "Why don't you go without hormones and see when things feel right to then see about choosing." I have been enjoying being hormone free and enjoy my body slipping into its in between form. I have been hormone free for a year and a month or 7mo since my last reading of testosterone that was 30ng/dl. I am so glad my pcp was on board with me not going on hrt to start.

[WheelyCurious]

When I came out to my primary care provider in fall of 2020. I talked to him about feeling in between. Little did I know that things in Minnesota were in the works to allow such a transition for non-binary folks. Just 3 months after I started seeing my therapists to get my letters of support, some medical text was changed allowing M to non-binary transition without hormones. I was refused at first by an out of state Dr that my case was sent to for approval. A day after I was contacted by an ally in blue cross blue shield that went to some meetings and got my denial changed to approval.

With that said as I chatted with my new pcp(my original pcp moved back to Germany before my orchiectomy) she asked how I felt about my hormones. I mentioned not wanting to take testosterone and that I was considering hrt. She asked if I was wanting to transition to female and I stated I didn't know. She then asked me something I was not prepared for, "Why don't you go without hormones and see when things feel right to then see about choosing." I have been enjoying being hormone free and enjoy my body slipping into its in between form. I have been hormone free for a year and a month or 7mo since my last reading of testosterone that was 30ng/dl. I am so glad my pcp was on board with me not going on hrt to start.

Glad that it is working well for you, just be sure to keep a close eye on things like bone density... It might be worth asking your doc about SERM class drugs like ralaxofine (Evista) that are supposed to be as effective as T or E in protecting your bone health, but w/o the feminizing (especially boob growth) that comes with estrogen...

WheelyCurious