What are the best options for a 'Test Drive'?

[sftineun (imported)]

Is the estradiol necessary form loss of libido? I don't want feminization and I don't care if I'm impotent or not, so that's not a goal.

If you do not want feminization, do not take estradiol.

Androcur alone could cause some feminization.

To achieve impotence and turn off libido, I took Androcur and Tamoxifen. You could take Raloxifene instead of Tamoxifen. Both suppress feminization. At the same time, they also cause loss of libido and impotence as well. As such, together with Androcur, I was able to achieve the desired states at far lower doses, 12.5 mg / day on Androcur, and 10 mg / day for Tamoxifen. The combination was very effective. I liked my test drive so much that I eventually took it till everything became permanent. (I documented my journey here on EA more than 10 years ago. For more details, search my previous account ID "hkeunuch", or "Androcur + Tamoxifen".)

[WheelyCurious]

I am finaly going to test how chemical castration feels, Androcur has already been ordered.

I got the tip that you can reliably turn off the libido and become impotent with a small dose of Androcur about 12.5 mg/day and Estradiol 1 mg/day.

Is the estradiol necessary form loss of libido? I don't want feminization and I don't care if I'm impotent or not, so that's not a goal.

The issue is that you are supposed to need some amount of EITHER Testosterone or Estrogen in order to prevent some of the more dangerous effects of castration like osteoporosis and depression, not to mention the annoying ones like hot flashes.... A lot of folks seem to do OK being hormone free, but it's not really recommended...

I am trying to go with the medically supervised route because I'm worried about the extra risks caused by my disability, (one appointment so far, another one next week...) and the doctor seems to be thinking that some sort of E is essential for me, even though I don't want a lot of feminization either. However she did say that there are some 'estrogen analogs' that provide much of the same protective effects that estradiol does, but don't have as much of a feminizing effect. I'm not sure of the names offhand.

WheelyCurious

[Cseriess (imported)]

The issue is that you are supposed to need some amount of EITHER Testosterone or Estrogen in order to prevent some of the more dangerous effects of castration like osteoporosis and depression, not to mention the annoying ones like hot flashes.... A lot of folks seem to do OK being hormone free, but it's not really recommended...

I am trying to go with the medically supervised route because I'm worried about the extra risks caused by my disability, (one appointment so far, another one next week...) and the doctor seems to be thinking that some sort of E is essential for me, even though I don't want a lot of feminization either. However she did say that there are some 'estrogen analogs' that provide much of the same protective effects that estradiol does, but don't have as much of a feminizing effect. I'm not sure of the names offhand.

WheelyCurious

Very interested to hear what your Dr advises. Please let us know.

[Marian-Zero (imported)]

I now have the following plan: As soon as the Androcur is delivered, I take 50mg on the first day. Then on the second and third day 25mg and then from the fourth day 12.5mg daily.

After two weeks I start Tamoxifen to prevent feminization. After about three months I should be chemically largely without sex / gender but not entirely without hormones.

What do those who have experience think of it?

[AcordingIP (imported)]

That's a great plan if you want nothing more than an expensive placebo.

If however, you are serious about chemical castration then please research the correct protocol.

[sftineun (imported)]

...

she did say that there are some 'estrogen analogs' that provide much of the same protective effects that estradiol does, but don't have as much of a feminizing effect. I'm not sure of the names offhand.

WheelyCurious

Tamoxifen and Raloxifene are both estrogen analogs.

[WheelyCurious]

Tamoxifen and Raloxifene are both estrogen analogs.

Well I will be doing a slow start to the test drive tomorrow... I had my second appointment with the TG clinic doctor this afternoon, and what she wants to do as a start is to stop the 20mg / day of supplemental T that I'm currently on, and then come in for bloodwork in about 6 weeks to see where I'm at and decide on next steps.

She wants to see how much T my balls are producing on their own in order to decide on what we need to do for further suppression. Her guess based on how she doses her other patients is that its about a 50/50 split, my baseline from my last test was 424ng/ml and she expects that I'll drop down into the 200's when I get off the T. She also wants to see what getting off of the T does for my mood / libido, etc.

When she sees where I'm at, and assuming I want to continue, she would be looking at what to give me for suppressing the ball output, probably Lupron or something similar.

She wants to be cautious not just because the drugs are problematic in general, but because some of them increase the risk of blood clotting and I'm already at some risk of clots / thrombosis because of being in a wheelchair.

WheelyCurious

[AcordingIP (imported)]

Why oh why, in the name of Greek buggery, is so much crap spoken about chemical castration?

It's not difficult.

It's not problematic.

If done correctly, with the appropriate protocol, you are very unlikely to encounter any adverse effects - aside from those you are clearly seeking.

If a simple chap like me can accomplish it then there is hope for the rest of you. Especially when I was told by my doctor that I had a greater depth of knowledge surrounding endocrinology than he had.

It's easy. Read. Do your research.

And stop talking bollocks.

[Marian-Zero (imported)]

Why oh why, in the name of Greek buggery, is so much crap spoken about chemical castration?

It's not difficult.

It's not problematic.

If done correctly, with the appropriate protocol, you are very unlikely to encounter any adverse effects - aside from those you are clearly seeking.

If a simple chap like me can accomplish it then there is hope for the rest of you. Especially when I was told by my doctor that I had a greater depth of knowledge surrounding endocrinology than he had.

It's easy. Read. Do your research.

And stop talking bollocks.

Well, unfortunately it's not that simple.

On the one hand, what we are doing here is actually abuse and there are never clear dosages for that. Those are only clear for the correct applications of the drugs.

On the other hand, it has apparently been shown in recent years that the usual doses of between 50 and 100 mg/day are much too high if you only want to suppress the libido. More than 10mg/day are apparently not necessary. There are a few articles and reports on this, I also have it from a person who is chemically castrated. However, it combines it with estradiol. I am neutrois but I dont want feminization.

And even more difficult is the dosage of the estrogen receptor modulators because there are no official studies for my purpose. The better raloxifene has apparently not yet been tested here in the forum, this is apparently completely new territory.

[AcordingIP (imported)]

I need to change my username to 'Stuck Record'.

For I will repeat myself: It IS that simple. It just is!

I have read pretty much every study and every publication from pharmacology relating to this subject that I could get my hands on over the last 15 years. That does NOT make me an expert. But I am informed.

There are indeed reports which would seemingly back up what you suggest regarding dosage of cyproterone acetate, but your initial protocol is absolute crap. There is no way you will achieve the desired results on such a low initial dosage. As a maintenance dosage maybe. But I have my doubts on that too.

Your primary concern should be liver function. 50mg per day is not likely to cause issue but the starting dose needs to be much higher. Or else you are just chewing rather expensive tablets for no gain. READ THE LEAFLET.

With any suppression of testosterone you WILL experience mild feminisation. It's very likely no-one will notice. I would advise against any other medical regime and just accept it.

This is NOT medical advice, just my opinion. And I wish you every success in your endeavours.