What are the best options for a 'Test Drive'?

[WheelyCurious]

(Please see my thread over in Intros for more about me http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... xploration..)

I have been reading a lot, and am seriously exploring the idea of getting castrated... A suggestion that I have seen many times that makes a good bit of sense to me is that before going for any permanent options one should try a chemical 'test drive' to see if the results are what you hope.... While simply turning my balls off for a while wouldn't address the physical reasons I'd like to go nutless, it would let me assess the mental effects. This seems like really a good thing to try before starting down the one way trip to being an eunuch.

So what are the best options for doing a 'test drive'?

I also have no expectation that I'd get any support or help from my doctors so it would have to be DIY, and this raises the question of how one gets any medications w/o a prescription (I am in the US)

WheelyCurious

[Cseriess (imported)]

Try Plume. They are more geared to M2F but were very open and helpful.

[WheelyCurious]

Try Plume. They are more geared to M2F but were very open and helpful.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not sure it would work - Their website says that they can't help people over 65 due to Medicare rules. I'm going to be hitting 65 in less than a year so timing seems like it would be a major problem.

WheelyCurious

[Cseriess (imported)]

A year is along time.

[WheelyCurious]

A year is along time.

More like 8-9 months.... (Bday in Nov) I'm also thinking in terms of going for full surgical if I find the test drive to do what I'm expecting / hoping for, and would rather not have to switch care in the middle of the process....

I have looked at the hospital where I get most of my care already, and they have a transgender center, I'm thinking that if they are willing to work on someone wanting to do MtE that might be the easiest / best way forward.

[NesGreenz (imported)]

You can try Depoprovera, it can be ordered at inhousepharmacy. Please be careful, you said you don't want to have lasting effects but people in your age group tend to be more susceptible to permanency. More than one person on here in the 60+ range has found that out the hard way. The normal course for depo is 150mg shot day one, 150mg shot week 2, 150mg shot each month after. From the time you stop it takes 3 to 6 months to wear off.

[keyman419 (imported)]

You also need to understand there can be a big difference between CC and surgical castration. I tried CC years ago, did 6 months on Depo Provera during each of 3 trials over 5 or so years. When on CC my T level dropped to below 20. CC eliminates practically ALL T production in a very short period of time, hence a reading of 17 on one test. Hot flashes were severe and annoying on CC. I felt absolutely terrible and had serious depression issues.

I was nullified (with surgical castration) 2.5 years ago now. I've tried HRT and I went a year with no HRT. During that year with no HRT, my level went to 65-70. There was a big difference for me being at 70 vs 17. At 70 I would have brief bouts of sweating (in the summer) that I think were mild hot flashes. Depression wasn't nearly the issue it was on CC. I was more tired but not nearly as severe as CC and I could push through it easily.

So the point is that with surgical your body can still produce some small quantities of T so CC can give you a worst case scenario but may not totally represent the real thing. Notice my use of the word 'can' because as everything, YMMV as everyone can be different.

Hope that helps,

keyman419

[Paolo]

Just to head it off, there is thread (probably a couple) on herbals for chemical castration. Don't bother. You'll be eating bowls full of pills and spending a fortune. I tried it once. Not worth the hassle and cost.

As keyman mentioned, chemical castration shuts off ALL testosterone production. The testicles aren't the only organ producing it, however. Some comes from the adrenal glands and even a tiny bit from the brain, so castration won't eliminate that.

In short, Depo can be pricey. Androcur isn't legal in the US (that I know of?) and many report the main side effect being breathlessness, which is unpleasant and scary.

Even with Low T., you still have some T., and when that bit is gone, you're very likely to experience side effects.

See Kristoff's "castration primer" thread about this. It's a sticky (top of the list) thread.

http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php?

10168-Castration-Primer&highlight=primer

Having gone through this before my (ill-advised) own HRT about 20 years ago...

... damn, it was 20 years ago?!...

I recently had to coach a friend of mine through this. Of course, he's a "man's man," and it was just devastating for him, what he went through. You list the symptoms, like hot flashes, he got it. Every damn one of 'em!

I was like, "welcome to my world." But... in time, you do adapt to low/very low T. If you want to.

In my case, after a bit of damage from my own stupidity, some inflammation, some serious infection from ignoring it, and overall being too cheap to see a doctor until I was about ready to fling myself in front of a bus, my testicles finally said, "OK, that's it. We quit. We're not leaving, but we're not working." And I'm fine with that, really. In short, I did a round of HRT, and it wasn't fun at all. In fact, I was dumb enough to do it twice, in an effort to "kick start" them. It didn't really work, either.

LT may bite me on this one, but it's rather like sticking to a harsh diet - it takes willpower, if you wanna stay with the Low T thing!

[Valery_V (imported)]

I don't understand why people want to get rid of testosterone completely.

[WheelyCurious]

Thanks for the comments so far; it is helpful...

Currently I have not started any actions - so my endocrinologist for the past several years has me on 2 squirts / day of Fortesta Gel, 10mg per squirt, so 20mg day of supplemental T. I'm not sure how that translates into how much of my current level is from my natural production and how much is from the supplement - Any ideas on how to estimate?

As a baseline my 12/13/21 results were

Compopnent My Value Standard Range

TESTOSTERONE 424 ng/dL 249 to 836 ng/dL249 - 836 ng/dL

SEX HORM. BIND. GLOB. 31 nmol/L 13 to 71 nmol/L13 - 71 nmol/L

Effective 11/30/2019, Sex hormone binding globulin results will shift downward by 18% compared to past results. This shift is the result of a recalibration of the assay by the reagent and instrument manufacturer.

FREE TESTOSTERONE 8.68 ng/dL 6.16 to 19.40 ng/dL6.16 - 19.40 ng/dL

See Sex hormone binding globulin result comment for information on the recalibration of the SHBG component of the free testosterone calculation.

PERCENT FREE TESTO 2.05 % 1.22 to 2.81 %1.22 - 2.81 %

NesGreenz

You can try Depoprovera, it can be ordered at inhousepharmacy. Please be careful, you said you don't want to have lasting effects but people in your age group tend to be more susceptible to permanency. More than one person on here in the 60+ range has found that out the hard way. The normal course for depo is 150mg shot day one, 150mg shot week 2, 150mg shot each month after. From the time you stop it takes 3 to 6 months to wear off.

Thanks for the cautions about permanence - my basic plan is to do the CC for long enough to see if being neutered suits me as well as I think it will, and if it does to then go for surgical. It sounds like the De

po wouldn't take many shots for the test....

keyman419

You also need to understand there can be a big difference between CC and surgical castration. I tried CC years ago, did 6 months on Depo Provera during each of 3 trials over 5 or so years. When on CC my T level dropped to below 20. CC eliminates practically ALL T production in a very short period of time, hence a reading of 17 on one test. Hot flashes were severe and annoying on CC. I felt absolutely terrible and had serious depression issues.

I was nullified (with surgical castration) 2.5 years ago now. I've tried HRT and I went a year with no HRT. During that year with no HRT, my level went to 65-70. There was a big difference for me being at 70 vs 17. At 70 I would have brief bouts of sweating (in the summer) that I think were mild hot flashes. Depression wasn't nearly the issue it was on CC. I was more tired but not nearly as severe as CC and I could push through it easily.

So the point is that with surgical your body can still produce some small quantities of T so CC can give you a worst case scenario but may not totally represent the real thing. Notice my use of the word 'can' because as everything, YMMV a

s everyone can be different.

Hope that helps,

keyman419

Many thanks - this is one of my questions about doing a test drive, namely how close it is to the real thing... It sounds like you saw a pretty significant difference. That said, did you find the CC experience enough to convince you to go for surgery, or were you pretty much set on surgery no matter what?

Mysterion - Thanks for the note about herbals... It is interesting to see Saw Palmetto mentioned in the primer, as I've been taking it for many years (started long before my SCI) on the basis of it's claims for prostate health (my late father had the slow prostate cancer, that they never treated that I know of on the 'something else will get you first' theory) and this is the first place I've ever seen mention of it as an anti-androgen... While that suggests it isn't very effective, I wonder if it had anything to do w/ my current state...

Speaking of surprise unadvertised side effects - I saw mention in one of the threads of Omeprazole (which I take for acid reflux) and Amolodipine (which I'm on for high blood pressure) having gynomastia as a side effect - how big of a problem is this if I don't want to end up looking like Mae West?

WheelyCurious