Starting the exploration

[WheelyCurious]

I have been doing a lot of reading as a lurker, and have decided that it is time to start looking for more personally relevant answers... This is going to be a lengthy post, but I want to get out where I'm coming from and what I think I want to achieve.

I am a 64 year old paraplegic, T-5, AIS-B, for those that speak SCI, or paralyzed from about the bottom of the rib cage down, with some sensation but no motor function. Unlike most SCI's that were caused by trauma directly to the spine, my injury is due to an ischemic attack while I was undergoing some emergency surgery to fix a punctured aorta (will skip details). This gives me an injury profile that differs in many ways from the usual traumatic type injury. Essentially I have what is called 'lower motor neuron damage' where signals make if from my brain down my spinal cord but don't make if from there to the muscles they are supposed to move.

Before my injury in early 2010, I was a straight man enjoying a long time monogamous relationship w/ my GF. We had a good sex life, albeit rather 'vanilla' by the standards of the more 'exotic' folks - we had tried a bit of experimenting and found it didn't do much for us... We were seriously trying to have kids, but definitely got started way later than we should have.... She actually hit menopause about the time I got hurt. I will give her much credit and thanks, she stuck with me when I got hurt, and is with me still (I have NOT discussed this topic w/ her yet, and don't plan to unless I decide to go further than exploring the idea) Recently we have had a serious role reversal, as she has become legally blind due to a bad reaction to a drug... This means I've had to become her caregiver to a major extent, instead of her being mine...

When I got hurt, the impact on sexual function was tremendously impacted, and has gotten worse over time. I have always been on the very small side when non-erect, but but got (and enjoyed) the typical 6" range erections. Immediately post injury, it was harder but I could still get pretty close to that w/ physical stimulation or even vivid imagination - but orgasm did NOT happen! I would hit the 'magic moment' and NOTHING would happen, if I continued stimulation past that point it rapidly became painful the same way that it would if continuing normal intercourse past orgasm w/o giving everything a break... I also don't seem to get erections except when trying.

We tried a few medications that were alleged to help in off-label use - they didn't.... We still enjoy 'cuddling' but anything further is totally frustrating because of the functional failure... The SCI support experts try to sell the idea that this can be just as good, but IMHO they are trying to sell decaf as a good substitute for espresso.... Because it was so frustrating we eventually pretty much gave up and haven't even tried in years.

Over time (possibly because of lack of exercise) my penis has shrunk to the point of being almost non-existent / internal, I have to work on fishing it out in order to catheterize - cant say I blame it when its only exercise is to have a tube stuck up it several times a day.... My testicles / scrotum still are normal size and sensitivity although when I'm dressed they mostly sit up over the spot where my penis is hiding - this is largely intentional on my part as an effort to avoid having them jammed down between my legs while sitting in my wheelchair. I still have notable discomfort most of the time from the package being wedged in there.

I don't know just how much T they are producing, but my endocrinologist says I'm hypo-gonadal to some degree (which is common in SCI patients) and have been using supplemental T for many years (2 squirts / day of Fortesta Gel) in an effort to minimize the bone density loss that is one of the many secondary complications of SCI. My last scan showed me to have normal density above my injury, and osteopenia below it....

[WheelyCurious]

So as a second post, I'm trying to make as informed a decision as I possibly can, and so I've tried to make a list starting w/ a copy of the effects from Kristoff's excellent Castration Primer post, mixed with my reactions to them. I'd really like to hear what

folks that have had the big snip think about my opinions on this and particularly about my concerns...

Obviously I think the reported 'good stuff' that comes with castration is pretty appealing, if it wasn't I wouldn't be considering it at all.... The question is whether the 'bad stuff' is bad enough to be a deal breaker....

Kristoff's text in bold

Feminization

My bottom line is that I consider my self to be male, and have no desire to present as anything else as an eunuch. I wouldn’t object to mild feminization as long as it wasn’t so severe as to cause problems with presenting as male. IOW, I have no problems with the idea of being on the ‘feminine end’ of the male spectrum, but wouldn’t want to end up on the female spectrum...

The most obvious impact of castration is infertility. The testes, of course, are the loci of spermatogenesis, and their removal halts sperms production.

Not a problem – both the GF and I are past child bearing age. I may already be sterile anyway as my endocrinologist warned me that it is a possible consequence of the T supplement I’m currently using.

A significant general reduction in libido will occur, along with loss of most if not all erective capacity. Some eunuchs are able to attain and maintain erection, although usually with significant effort required. Orgasm may occur, although more often not, and it is usually reported as inadequate.

Not a problem – basically already there – no erections to speak of, no orgasm in 12 years, etc.

With the decline in erectile ability is a coincidental reduction in or elimination of nocturnal erections. Lack of regular erections, with resultant lack of expansive activity of the penis, apparently results in a perceptible reduction in the size of the flaccid penis.

Definitely already happened to a large degree, might be a problem if a lot more shrinkage occurs since it is already almost internal and a minor challenge to pull it out when cathing. Haven’t been aware of a night-time boner or morning wood in years.

Secondary male sexual characteristics may diminish or change as a result of testosterone deprivation. For example, there may occur:

Loss or thinning of body hair (i.e., chest, legs, arms),

Don’t care – doesn’t seem like a problem either way

pattern baldness may stop or slow (in some cases hair may begin to re-grow),

I’ve lost a lot off the top already – don’t care if it gets worse or better or stays same.

Loss of muscle mass.

This IS a concern, more about loss of strength than anything else, particularly upper body since I have to do transfers and weight shifts multiple times a day (My arms are my legs...)

There may be a reduction or elimination of characteristic body odors.

Good – I can save money on deodorants

Voice pitch, however, will not change upon castration.

OK - not a big concern.

Increased fatigue and loss of physical stamina is not only related to the reduction of muscle mass, but also to the direct impact of testosterone on such body functions as metabolism (and, hence, energy production). The eunuch’s shoulders may become narrower as a result of shrinking muscle mass, and there may be a loss of muscle definition in the upper torso. Additionally, some mild breast development (gynecomastia), and mild fat redistribution around the hips and thighs may occur. Eunuchs often experience weight gain, including subcutaneous body fat (this thin layer of fat causes the skin to become softer and smoother.)

This is moderately concerning, not about cosmetic appearance as much as effect on ability to do the transfers etc. needed as a paraplegic, as well as things like self-propelling in my manual chair. At the same time this seems to sort of conflict w/ reports of increased strength among some historical eunuchs

I’m not thrilled w/ the idea of breast growth, but as long as they don’t get so big as to need a bra, it isn’t a major problem.

There may also occur among men experiencing loss of testosterone, changes in cognitive capacities, including memory losses, and changes in spatial reasoning abilities, among others. Greater emotional lability may be observed, with depression being more commonly observed. There may occur increases in depressed and irritable moods, reduced motivation and goal setting and achievement, declines in initiative and assertion, and a loss of interest in things previously found rewarding.

This is a significant concern – I’ve always been a ‘brain’ person, (I passed the Mensa qualifier when I was in High School) and consider my ability to think to be my main strength. How big is the risk of losing cognitive ability in terms of it actually happening for most folks vs. just something that has been reported?

The emotional changes are not something I’d want, and seem to not fit w/ the ‘eunuch calm’ often mentioned (and which I would like) I also already have a lot of issues w/ procrastination (which I need to address when I get around to it ;-}) and wouldn’t want those to be worse.

Hot flushes (flashes) and night sweats are common occurrences. While this occurs on a highly variable basis among different individuals, it very much reflects the experience of many menopausal women. It is not uncommon for such hot flashes to occur as soon as two weeks after castration, or to last as long as four months to as many as five years. Most reports are that it is a fairly frequent occurrence among eunuchs. Some eunuchs take low levels of estrogen to counteract this, while others utilize testosterone replacement (in either case, “Hormone Replacement Therapy,” or HRT). Even those eunuchs utilizing testosterone replacement therapy will frequently experience at least some degree of hot flashes.

Not having had these, hard to say how much of a problem they’d be, but it does sound like something that can be dealt with. Based on what I’ve read so far I’d be inclined towards the very low dose of E, which supposedly doesn’t overly feminize if kept very low.

Osteoporosis is of great concern to the eunuch, as well as to men and women who are experiencing andropause or menopause. Osteoporosis involves the loss of bone mass, and can result in the remaining bone mass becoming brittle, and more susceptible to breaks and other disorders. Lack of testosterone is associated with reduced uptake by the body, and hence the bones, of calcium and related relevant minerals essential to vital bone health. A proper diet, perhaps vitamin and mineral supplements, and an effective exercise program may help in the battle against osteoporosis.

This is a VERY BIG concern since I’m already in the osteopenia range from my hips down due to my paralysis… I would not want to see it get worse or hit my upper body after castration, but again some of my other reading suggests it wouldn’t be a big issue if doing HRT with either T or E… I also again wonder how the historical eunuchs (presumably no HRT for them) coped?

Finally, low levels of testosterone have been associated with Type II diabetes (adult onset), although causal relations between testosterone deficiency and Type II diabetes have not been clearly established. Increases in obesity (frequently accelerated by eunuchism) can help trigger Type II Diabetes. A general finding is that lower testosterone levels may indicate an increased risk of diabetes, regardless of weight or fat-mass. In general, the findings were associated not as much with malfunctioning testes, but with deficiencies in production of luteinizing hormone by the pituitary; however, the implications readily extend to eunuchs.

This seems sort of speculative, but who knows… I’m on the heavy side, but try to do low-carb which supposedly helps prevent diabetes.

So that is a start... Anything I missed?

WheelyCurious

[WheelyCurious]

I was just reviewing my previous posts in this thread, and it seems like the first one got severely trimmed in posting and ended up missing most of why I am seriously investigating the idea of getting castrated. It got the description of my physical condition, but nothing about WHY I'm finding the idea appealing...

For as long as I can remember I've had certain amounts of fantasies involving castration, on both the getting and giving end and often definitely not even vaguely nice or acceptable - but they were fantasies, I knew it and had no intent to ever do anything to make them real... I also didn't think there was any castration stuff going on in modern times except as the result of illness, accident or as part of transgender stuff, so I never did any looking for information about it....

I do some stuff on Quora and for some reason a question relating to castration popped up on my feed, and I looked at it out of curiosity - Some of the responses 'clicked' for me and I started looking further and found EA on one of my searches... I've been reading as a lurker for quite a while and am finding the idea attractive enough that I'm giving it serious consideration...

Because of my SCI I'm already sexually non-functional for all intents and purposes, so physically my balls are little more than an annoyance.

But even though the doesn't work, the desire is still there and distracting / frustrating because it can't be fulfilled. Many posts talk about no longer particularly thinking about sex which sounds great...

Because of the stresses of dealing w/ life as a paraplegic I find that I'm angry much of the time and tend to be very snappish and respond far more aggressively than the situation merits. I find that I often take this out verbally on the GF who really doesn't deserve it. I feel sorry about it afterwards and wish I could stop, but don't seem able to. The reported 'mellowing' / 'eunuch calm' and so on sounds like it might really help in dealing with this. I really haven't seen anything mentioned about castrations effect on mental state that didn't sound really desirable. The only mental aspect that I'm worried about is the possible loss of cognitive ability that seems often mentioned in the posts about the possible effects but not in the actual experience posts - so how 'real' is the possibility.

Another possibly problematic aspect is that because of my paraplegia, I have a lot of dealings w/ MD's and get a variety of tests done quite frequently... From all that I've read it seems that if you aren't a transgender person, it is unlikely to be possible to get support and guidance from the docs so I'd have to DIY at least some of it (I've been reading a lot of the CaCl thread) and doing it w/o getting 'caught' by the docs and sent off to the brain-rapers we call 'mental health professionals' seems like it might be a challenge....

So hopefully this will fill in some of the blanks as to why I'm 'WheelyCurios'

WheelyCurious

[Paolo]

You probably went over the character limit of the post. Just continue in a new one.

[WheelyCurious]

You probably went over the character limit of the post. Just continue in a new one.

I agree, just wish the board had given me some sort of error instead of just silently eating half my post... No big deal...

WheelyCurious

[gfbi (imported)]

I’m in the same boat, I’m a t-10 Asia A frustration is real thing, I have been on micronized progesterone and low dose estrogen. I have tried chemical even before this happen to me and liked not being driven by t this has reduced my t to female level. Not sure if you can control your badder but I have found some really useful things and changes. I’m considering have a orchiectomy

[gfbi (imported)]

You can have elective orchiectomy now days just have to see a gender therapist and they usually can get you in touch with the doctors who can prescribe meds legally and safely as well as procedures you may want.

[WheelyCurious]

I’m in the same boat, I’m a t-10 Asia A frustration is real thing, I have been on micronized progesterone and low dose estrogen. I have tried chemical even before this happen to me and liked not being driven by t this has reduced my t to female level. Not sure if you can control your badder but I have found some really useful things and changes. I’m considering have a orchiectomy

I do intermittent catheterizing, so typical neurgenic bladder that won't go... I get feelings of when I need to catn, but they are not always consistent as to when they kick in so between that and trying to 'push' the timing to make it fit the rest of my life schedule my bladder is way stretched... I use a closed system kit so I get to see my volumes, and I've hit as much as 1400ml which gets really tricky when the bag on the kit only holds 1500... I don't like getting that over-full and try to avoid going over 1L and prefer not much over 800, but... (BTW the 'standard tank' is around 400-500ml)

I want to try chemical castration first to see if it gives me the results I'm hoping for based on discussions here and elsewhere. It probably won't give me much relief from the physical discomfort of having balls, but at least it will let me try the mental changes on for size.

If the chemicals do nice things, then the orchiectomy (possibly w/ scrotum removal) would definitely be on the agenda for the next step... I don't see myself wanting changes beyond that. My penis is already so small it is hardly going to be in the way of anything, and it puts the tap for cathing in the right place... I definitely wouldn't want any MtF or Nullo re-routing given how much harder the whole bladder management is for the women wheelers I know.... I have one female friend who jokes that the only time she has ever had 'penis envy' was in rehab during the "How to Catheterize" lessons...

WheelyCurious

[WheelyCurious]

You can have elective orchiectomy now days just have to see a gender therapist and they usually can get you in touch with the doctors who can prescribe meds legally and safely as well as procedures you may want.

Thanks, this is the route I hope to be able to take, as I feel that given all the medical issues that are part of the SCI package I really don't feel comfortable with the idea of doing the DIY approach if there is an option for doing it w/ medical care.

I am far from thrilled by the idea of getting "brain-raped" by a bunch of mental health people based on some past experiences that have been less than positive, but if that is the hoop that has to be jumped through I guess I can put up with it.

I am on MassHealth (Medicaid) due to my SCI, and already get the rest of my health care through Mass. General / Brighams. I have looked and they have a "Transgender Health Program" as part of the hospital. If I was looking to to MtF they would sound perfect, as they claim to handle everything from soup to (no) Nuts... But I'm not seeing anything about them supporting someone like me that is wanting MtE. It would be nice if they did as it would simplify all the HIPAA stuff and presumably be covered under my Mass Health. At the same time I'm somewhat worried about approaching them in terms of what might end up in my medical records if they were not willing to help. Among other concerns is wondering about how that might impact things if they didn't want to help and I decided to start down the DIY route...

WheelyCurious

[WheelyCurious]

In my first post I mentioned that I hadn't discussed this w/ my GF. I feel that I have now reached the point where I've decided that this is a path I want to pursue further, so last night I had "THE CONVERSATION" where I came out to her and told her about my decision.

It was definitely a surprise to her. She was certainly aware that I had a lot of frustration and that our sex life had essentially vanished, but that I wanted to go eunuch in reality as well as practice was not something she expected.

We talked about it for quite a while, I told her more about my feelings and frustrations, about what I'd learned of the effects and why I thought it would be good for both me and our relationship and some of the good and bad side effects and so on.

I won't say she was thrilled, but she was OK with it by the "It's your body" basis... Her two biggest concerns pretty well matched mine, that I not do anything irreversible w/o a LOT more investigation, supporting my idea of getting a chemical castration 'test drive' first, and if at all possible doing things through or with the support of medical people as opposed to attempting DIY methods.

So it looks like she is enough OK with it to at least pursue things further.

WheelyCurious