Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Losethem (imported)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by Losethem (imported) »

Castor (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:37 pm Sorry, but what is the point? The doctor must be able to agree with his conscience whether he can justify the operation. If he is not convinced that it will help the patient more than harm him, the reference to SOC8 is of little help in my view.

That's because these things are a rare case of the European countries not being as enlightened about providing medical care than the US is. That certainly doesn'
NaturalEunuch (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:51 pm t happen often. FLeunuch makes a good point, below.

SOC8 is a major part of the case I'm formulating. WPATH is viewed as the authority and they 1) include eunuch as a legitimate gender identity, 2) advocate that eunuchs should be entitled to 'gender affirming care.'

Picking the right physician is critical. I believe SOC8 will have influence with doctors who w
ork with trans patients.

Well, I guess I'll find out.

As he notes, the SOC8 is the new guideline for surgeons who are performing gender surgeries around the world. Transgender people are able to achieve surgeries outside of the US and other areas where people like us have been obtaining surgery to make our bodies right. It's just now, there's the SOC8, which is the guidelines produced by WPATH that most surgeons around the world follow when agreeing to perform these surgeries. SOC8 tells them they should be paying attention and offering care to people like us as they do for people making a binary gender transition.

So if you're navigating your health system and it is providing care to people making a binary gender transition and not for someone like you, you need to point to the SOC8 so they can see there are other options aside from male and female. I would think there's a case to be made for gender discrimination if they refuse to assist you whilst helping binary transition patients, something which I'd think would go against EU regulation, as I understand EU regulations are very strict about discrimination related to gender.
WheelyCurious
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by WheelyCurious »

Castor (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:37 pm Sorry, but what is the point? The doctor must be able to agree with his conscience whether he can justify the operation. If he is not convinced that it will help the patient more than harm him, the reference to SOC8 is of little help in my view.

I agree that you have to have the doctor being OK w/ whatever he is doing... I doubt that a doctor saying "H3!! NO" is going to be convinced to change attitudes by pointing at SOC8.

At the same time if the doc is responding more on the order of "OK, but you need to do these 6 things first" then it seems reasonable to point at SOC8 and say "The experts suggest that only 2 of the things are needed, why do you want the other 4, some of which they say aren't?" The doc might have reasons that he sees as necessary in a specific case, or perhaps he is running on SOC7 which doesn't deal well with us.

As a non-related example - because I have to catheterize multiple times a day, I'm at extra high risk for UTI's and am almost always colonized w/ some level of bacteria. The 'default' protocol for able-bodied folks is to start antibiotics any time there is a positive urine test. However there is a special protocol for SCI patients like me that says don't do antibiotics (and usually don't even test) unless the patient is showing significant other symptoms.... There is then a different spec for the length of treatment needed... I have had several times where I've had to point docs that don't deal w/ a lot of SCI folks at this, and it caused them to change what they were initially planning....

So I'm saying that the use of SOC8 is NOT to force the doctor into doing what you want! It is to help guide his decision making about your care by giving him a set of standards that cover his butt against any professional consequences, and telling him what is reasonable to expect from the patient and what isn't...

In my case I'm dealing with the TG center at a major teaching hospital, so they are very open, but at the same time my doc says I'm the FIRST M>E patient she has had. So having the guidance in SOC8 helps her define what she needs for me to do and not have to do...

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Castor (imported)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by Castor (imported) »

WheelyCurious wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:12 am I doubt that a doctor saying "H3!! NO" is going to be convinced to change attitudes by pointing at SOC8.

That's exactly what I meant.
WheelyCurious wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:12 am So I'm saying that the use of SOC8 is NOT to force the doctor into doing what you want!

I totally agree, because that's not going to work. If the doctor knows SOC8 and wants more evidence than SOC8 requires, I would change the doctor. There will be no basic right to have surgery with any doctor even with SOC8. From my perspective, you have to find a doctor you trust. That's what I was trying to say with my post.
Losethem (imported)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by Losethem (imported) »

Castor (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:37 pm Sorry, but what is the point? The doctor must be able to agree with his conscience whether he can justify the operation. If he is not convinced that it will help the patient more than harm him, the refer
Castor (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:55 am ence to SOC8 is of little help in my view.

That's exactly what I meant.

I totally agree, because that's not going to work. If the doctor knows SOC8 and wants more evidence than SOC8 requires, I would change the doctor. There will be no basic right to have surgery with any doctor even with SOC8. From my perspective, you have to find a doctor yo
u trust. That's what I was trying to say with my post.

I would guess a doctor who is saying "hell no" is also not one who would be inclined to provide the treatment and/or surgeries anyhow. But what they should do instead of dismissing you, is to refer you to a doctor who is better equipped to handle your concerns.

I've fired 2 doctors for not knowing that basic element of care. I'm fine with a doctor being a jerk, but part of their oath is to do no harm, and when they act like jerks, that's what they're doing. They don't have to treat you, but they can do their best to direct you towards people who can more adequately address your case.

And besides, if a doctor says, "Hell no..." on a question like this, why would you seek care from them anyhow?
grapesoda19 (imported)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by grapesoda19 (imported) »

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:08 pm How do you identify your gender?
I identify (outwardly and on paper) as male, but I'm leaning towards the non-binary side of things (still rattling that part around in my head).

For those of you who...
Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:08 pm desire to go from intact to something else, how do you identify your gender?
Even then, probably still male, if not non-binary.

For the record, I use he/him/they/them pronouns.
Valery_V (imported)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by Valery_V (imported) »

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:48 pm 1527923280]
How do you identify your gender?
I identify (outwardly and on paper) as male, but I'm leaning towards the non-binary side of things (still rattlin
[/quote]
g that part around in my head).

For those of you who...[quote="Losethem (im
grapesoda19 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:48 pm ported)" time=1527923280]
desire to go from intact to something else, how do you identify your gender?
[/quote]
Even then, probably still male, if not non-binary.

For the record, I use he/him/they/them pronouns.

You don't need to bother with this issue. Nature has decided everything for you!

You cannot change the set of chromosomes that is in your body.

Another thing, if you are curious to experiment with your appearance? :)

If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I'm sure you're in good health as you are entertained by this topic.
WheelyCurious
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by WheelyCurious »

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:52 pm
grapesoda19 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:48 pm 1527923280]
How do you identify your gender?
I identify (outwardly and on paper) as male, but I'm leaning tow
ards the non-binary side of things (still rattlin
[/quote]
g that part aroun
Valery_V (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:52 pm d in my head).

For those of you who...[quote="Losethem (im[quote="grapesoda19 (imported)" time=1673171
280]
ported)" time=1527923280]
desire to go from intact to something else, how do you identify your gender?
[/quote]

[/quote]
Even then, probably still male, if not non-binary.

For the record, I use he/him/they/them pronouns.

It varies a bit... I present as male, and on paper when it's non-medical and something seen by people that know me or are likely to (I'm not 'out' about this topic other than to my GF) Medical stuff I will pick whatever answer seems most appropriate, depending on the options they provide, usually either non-binary or other (eunuch) since I figure it can impact my care... On things that are not likely to trace back to me, I get more open, again depending on the choices offered.

I use standard male pronouns... I cringe a bit at 'they/them' as it grates on my sense of proper English usage (Non-binary does not equal plural....) though I try to respect it....

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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by grapesoda19 (imported) »

Valery_V (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:52 pm You don't need to bother with this issue. Nature has decided everything for you!

You cannot change the set of chromosomes that is in your body.

Another thing, if you are curious to experiment with your appearance? :)

If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I'm sure you're in good health as you are entertained by this topic.

I just responded because it was a "Seeking thoughts" post and I could give my information. Since LT was a co-author of the SOC 8, I figured it was for that.

But, for the record, I don't buy into the whole "chromosomes"/"nature" arguement. I believe wanting to be a nullo, or being LGBTQIA+, or being transgender, or so many other things, are pre-programmed long before we are born. Like down to the sperm and the egg. Just like so many different things, eye color, hair color, how tall we are, whatever, it's all pre-programmed in our DNA.

I'm in as good of health as I can expect for almost 42 years old. But the topic of nullification is not one I am "entertained" by. Like assuring others have access to transgender services, I take it very seriously.
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by grapesoda19 (imported) »

WheelyCurious wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:16 pm I cringe a bit at 'they/them' as it grates on my sense of proper English usage (Non-binary does not equal plural....) though I try to respect it....

It used to bother me as well, but from a grammatical stand point. But, when I really looked at it, we say of a single person "they went to the store" or "they're buying lunch". So, when I looked at it that way, it wasn't a plural, but a singular....and it made grammatical sense. Outside of grammar, though, I think it's perfectly OK. I have gotten used to using they/them for many people. I've even started defaulting to they/them in conversation when I can't tell for certain (it happens).

The way I look at it, is if the person (who is using they/them pronouns) is safe and is happy, then that's all that matters. In the long run, it's a word. :)
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Re: Seeking thoughts of Eunuchs, Nullos, and Penectomized, and serious wannabes

Post by Banded0ne (imported) »

Castrated last year but still a man. Genesis 5:2
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