Jessica, the dead Heart Transplant victim

[MaxPgh (imported)]

Am I the one-man factmeister here?

Here's what federal law says: Anyone who presents at any emergency room anywhere in this country, citizen, legal immigrant, vacationer, illegal immigrant, martian, etc., MUST BE TREATED FOR THE EMERGENCY CONDITION. That's been federal law for twenty years. (and I should know, before going into law enforcement, I supervised a group of medical assistance workers.) Sooooo.......Ivan Ivanovich leaves Moscow for a visit with his cousins in Chicago. In the middle of his first Big Mac, Ivan has a heart attack. When he arrives at Cook County General, HE MUST BE TREATED. On the other hand, if Ivan just has gas from that Big Mac, he gets sent home, UNLESS the E.R. doc thinks it might be appendicitis. If it is just gas, Ivan gets sent home to his cousin's house, and gets a bill for E.R. services.

In the screwy manner that health care is provided in America, the local emergency room is where poor people get routine medical care. If your kid is home from school with an earache, wait until it gets BAD, then take her to the E.R. for treatment, which the hospital must provide free if you have limited income. Mind you, this costs about ten times what a government-funded outpatient clinic would cost, but the taxpayers seem to say no to government-funded outpatient clinics. (Sort of like saying, "I'm not wasting MY money having the oil changed in my car!" then putting in a new engine in a year or two. Ya saved money, but boy, did it cost ya.)

Finally, here's a question for you all: If trends continue, latinos will be the largest ethnic group in America in about 75 years. Who do you think will be coming into the US in 2078 that latinos will bitch about? My money is on Arabs.

America is the screwiest, most annoying, least logical country in the world. I wouldn't live anywhere else.

Max

p.s. Going back to the original purpose of this rather wacky board, it looks like I'm going to set THE DATE soon. Ya suppose I'll be less cranky after? Riverwind: You Da Man.

[Paolo]

And all of that, Max, was no reason for you to attack charlieje in the manner that you did, nor to generalize in such an obnoxious manner.

Bottom line - MY board, MY friends, MY rules.

I'd have a few other things to call you, other than the self-proclaimed "fact-meister", but I won't. I'm USUALLY a bit more tactful.

State your views, yes, but don't do it at the cost of the members, whether in particular or general.

And by the way, if the board is too wacky for you, you know where the door is. If not, I'll be more than happy to point it out to you.

Oh, and as far as low testosterone and being less cranky and more docile?! Sure as hell didn't work for ME, but I hope it does for YOU, IF that's what YOU want for your life.

I do wish you all the best in that endeavor.

[Charlieje (imported)]

Am I the one-man factmeister here?

FACTMEISTER?

Max, I decline your obvious offer to engage with me, it would serve no purpose. Having said that there are two statements you have made that I feel I must respond to.

I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that you are the only one here who has the facts, but I am very much afraid that your "facts" are as flawed as most of the media reports on this issue. If Jessica was here on a medical visa, how do you explain that she has been going to school here since middle school? How do you explain that her parents are both employed here and have been for some time?

The second issue I want to address, and frankly the only reason I feel obligated to respond at all, is the fact that you called me a racist. Max, if only I could communicate to you in terms you can understand how incredibly ludicrous that statement is! I don't think there is anything I can say that will convince you so I won't try. Suffice to say I love my fellow man, and I pride myself on being totally colorblind.

One of the most vivid memories of my life occurred when I was no more than ten years old. I was listening to a drama on radio one Sunday afternoon (that was before TV in Canada). It was the story of a little boy who had met a new friend, a BLACK friend. After several neighbors called the boy's parents' attention to the fact that their son was spending time with a black boy (this was in the early 1950's), they confronted him with it. The father asked the boy if his new friend was black. The boy thought for a moment, then responded: "I don't know. I never noticed."

That incident has been recorded very vividly in my first published book, which I am now posting with the help of Paolo chapter by chapter. It is one of the later chapters, not posted yet, but it is there, as it is in the second book I am preparing for publication. As I said, that simple radio drama had a very profound effect on me.

I am NOT a racist, Max! But I am a firm believer in obeying rules whenever possible, and if there is something in your current environment you don't like, you need to either do what you can to change it or shut up and accept it.

That's why it has taken my wife and me over forty years and cost at least twenty thousand dollars to become citizens of this country. We take exception to those who come waltzing in bypassing all the rules and then demand what we worked so hard for. We value our citizenship enough to fight for it and seek the truth.

Do you?

[Losethem (imported)]

After reading it all, I have to say I see valid points on both sides. Too bad I missed the "offending" post (in quotes because I didn't see it).

Of course, Charlie and I know how backwards things are here in NC since we both live here... Honestly, he and I live in a state that gets tobacco lawsuit money and then gives it to the tobacco farmers. Anyone else see a problem with that? Personally I would have used it to train the tobacco farmers kids to do something else. But like everything else all we get is "it's our hertiage..." So you throw money down a rat hole for "heritage"?

Of course slavery and racial intolerance is heritage here also. I don't see slavery anymore, but I certainly still see racial intolerance and not only in CharlieJ's original statement. I have a nice black woman friend and I go to lunch with her quite often. You should see the looks we get walking together here in the south. Never mind the fact that she's old enough to be my mother.

My point is that I think Charlie's comments were a bit racially insensitive. I don't think everyone should be able to walk across the border either. I kind of like having Canada for a neighbor myself, but honestly, they exist merely by the good graces of thier friend to the south. I mean the country doesn't even have an army strong enough to defend Ottawa. Just by that they have to rely on the US to defend it.

I can kind of see why Charlie wants to live here, it's the stronger of the two nations, not to mention that socialized medicine is starting to get rather pricey and inefficient. I think the govt. should help out, but not subsidize everyone. But then that's the rub... where is the cut-off point?

Though I have to agree with some of the attitude he has. I mean, we go to another non-english speaking country and they expect us to get along in their language. Those same people come here they expect us to accomodate them in their mother tongue. I have a problem with that.

Oh well, enough of a rant from me for now.

Now where did I leave that elastrator?

[Charlieje (imported)]

OK, I have stated my position and I will say no more. I want to reiterate that I grieve for Jesica... no one should have to cash in their chips at 17. Frankly I have thought many times that I would have been far better off if I had died at 17; but if I had, there would not be three incredible adults on our planet today, and they would not have produced three equally incredible children, one of whom is named for me.

In a weekend in the very near future, I will be spending the weekend with my ten-year-old granddaughther. At the end of that weekend, Jessica will have built all by herself, with her granddad's coaching, her new computer: a 2.1 Ghtz killer with an 80 GB RAID array, fully mirrored so there will be no failure that can not be revcovered. And she will have built it herself!

Oh, did I mention that Jessica is 11, that she is in fifth grade and has been in an advanced program since third grade, and SHE IS IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY and could be deported at any time, in spite of the fact that her mother is a legal resident and a very valued lab tech at a prominent hospital?

Don't even try to tell me I'm a racist!

[Paolo]

Alright, then one of you needs to copy and paste the exact line that is so racially insensitive and explain why YOU feel such.

I have read and reread that post over and over again, and I fail to see what's so racially horrible about it.

The fact that she was Mexican has nothing to do with it. The fact that her family got here illegally and bilked the American taxpayers out of a nice pile of money IS. The fact that two other people, perhaps legal citizens, perhaps not, may die as a result of this mess IS.

You'll excuse me I'm sure, but I'm a bit bitter about the medical care thing since I now have to make war on the insurance people while B's thyroid pills sit on my VISA card earning interest whilst I help stuff things like Hostess Twinkies and 5 lb. bags of sugar down his throat to keep him going.

Pity he doesn't need a new heart - I'd just tell them he was an illegal Canadian kid I smuggled in last week and have it cured overnight.

And if our good fact-Meister can point me to reliable news sources that contradict CNN, MSNBC and Tom Brokaw, then I will happily read them and re-evaluate my position.

[Losethem (imported)]

I draw a distinction between what is racist and racially insensitive. I kind of look at it in the context of it is racist to call somebody "greenie" if they are a martian; if a person says, "those no good dirty martians" that is racially insensitive.

I think my main point before was that people should be taken care of medically regardless of race or background as we are all human. I thought the comments made by others were a bit racially insensitive due to the upset between how they got to the USA vs. how the other person did. Of course I'm not for illegal immigration at all, but was more interested in the human compassion side of things.

What will upset me about this case is if the family sues the hospital. Of course that is for our American trial lawyers to get their hooks into. At least this girl was given a chance, many families never get that far.

[MaxPgh (imported)]

Bottom line: Most Mexicans come to America to try to earn a living and support their families. Most Canadians come to America as a life-style choice.

Charlieje, if you're going to dump on latinos in America for not "becoming Americans" as fast as you, a Canadian, think they should, maybe you can tell us why an entire Canadian province doesn't speak English.

Gee, if it was so horrible for a Mexican girl to take advantage of American health care, why are you not outraged that your illegal grand daughter is being educated and American taxpayers are footing the bill?

Kinda hypocritical, eh?

Max

THIS ENTIRE THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED.

[Charlieje (imported)]

Max,

I am trying very hard to maintain control here, but it is difficult.

I do not know how you presume to know why various ethnic groups come to this country. Isn't that a tad racist?

As for your comments about the "Canadian province that doesn't speak English," well, I fail to understand what that has to do with this discussion. I personally consider Quebec to be Canada's nations disgrace, but I don't know what that has to do with this thread.

I don't remember saying anything about anyone "becoming American" before or after anyone else. My only problem, with Mexicans, Haitians, Canadians, Brits, whoever, is that so many people arrive one way or the other on the shores of this great country, breaking all the rules to do so, and then start demanding all the benefits of those who have lived here all their lives and made this country what it is.

One more point and I will say no more: Yes, my granddaughter is undocumented: an illegal alien because she was born in Canada. But her parents are fully documented, paying income taxes, property taxes just like the rest of us. The reason my granddaughter is "illegal" is due to a major screw-up by the INS. No one in my family has ever taken anything from this country, or from Canada for that matter, without "paying the bill."

I will post no more to this thread.

[Paolo]

You know, people, I'm sorry, but I totally fail to understand how anyone can not be in a rabid fit over this whole thing.

This illegal immigrant, race regardless, comes to this country, runs up ungodly high medical bills at OUR expense, then her family, no doubt, will get to cash in a multi billion dollar lawsuit.

And here I am, damn near getting arrested over trying to get ONE FUCKING PILL for 'my' kid so he won't fall over! You gotta love how American business works.



As far as I'm concerned, I hope her whole damn family gets run over by a bus before they get any money out of this.