Is “Eunuch” a “Third Sex?

[seanthomas (imported)]

Recently I was asked that, as a eunuch, do I considered myself “third sex”, meaning neither male nor female. Well, the answer to that is “no”. Because I have nearly a half century of being mentally programmed to be a male, I still consider myself a strictly male.

Now as far as I know, only India legally defines “eunuch” as a third, separate sex. However, in our current social climate, people are free to identify as pretty much anything they choose and both society and governments generally accommodate. Many countries have designated “X” as an alternative to male or female identities and I suppose “eunuch” could easily fit in the “X” category if one desired.

My problem with all this modern definition of who and what we are is that society and many individuals so readily impose, or adopt, labels then try and force them on everyone else. I don't care to be labeled.

I have no problem with a transsexual male claiming to be a female, or vice versus, until they try and induce me to embrace their declaration. Call me old fashion, but a biological male identifying as “female” is not legitimate regardless of hormone therapy or cosmetic surgery. Such a person is “transgender” and I don’t know why they simply cannot embrace that label - and identity - and go about their lives happily, instead of forcing everyone to agree they are in fact not biologically male.

If a eunuch decides they want to be categorized as a third sex, that’s okay with me. Just don’t force me to accept that identity. I am a castrated male, labeled by society as “eunuch”, but in actuality I am simply a man without testicles.

I can see the advantage of eunuchs claiming the “third sex” label. As such, we would be free to dress in male or female clothing or anything in between (I happen to have worn traditional clogs – considered by many to be feminine footwear – throughout my “pre-eunuch” life and continue to do so). But just because I wear clogs doesn't mean I want to be feminine. Clogs are just comfortable - period.

Another label I'm uncomfortable with is "bisexual". Despite the fact I identified myself as such on this forum, my same sex relationships were in my early teens, long long ago. For the majority of my life I have been married and happily monogamous, so am I still truly "bisexual", or is this a label I must carry from my childhood?

I prefer to shun labels. Man or eunuch or bisexual, I am much prefer to describe myself as “Just Me”.

[sparkey49 (imported)]

I agree for the most part for instance if someone tries to say if someone is a eunuch they are not a man! I have lived my life as a man and continue to do so and nobody who knows me has ever referred seen me as anything else but a man and a lot of my family, friends and coworkers know I have no balls and it has never been an issue! Each person can identify as they like. I am a eunuch but still fully a man.

[Freddyjack (imported)]

I'd like to pose a question, is a woman who's ovaries surgically removed a eunuch? whether she is a eunuch or not, isn't she still a woman? provided she's not trans.

[seanthomas (imported)]

I'd like to pose a question, is a woman who's ovaries surgically removed a eunuch? whether she is a eunuch or not, isn't she still a woman? provided she's not trans.

I believe "eunuch" refers only to males, yet a woman who has undergone a hysterectomy with her ovaries removed is considered, in medical parlance, to have been "castrated".

It was not long ago that doctors preformed radical hysterectomies on women, often as a unnecessary "preventative measure", with little regard to the long term consequence. A prominent female cardiologist cousin of mine derided the practice, proclaiming many doctor forced the surgery on women simply make money. My own mother was a victim of this unscrupulous atrocity at age 30.

How strange that even today a woman can waltz into her gynecologist's office and receive a radical hysterectomy (castration) on demand, while a man seeking voluntary castration would be lucky to find a willing surgeon somewhere in the third world, but never in the USA or Europe.

More of an answer that asked for, but I never miss an opportunity to rail against the American medical system, which drives men seeking castration to unlicensed and often untrained "cutters" - or their resorting to do-it-yourself de-nutting.

[Freddyjack (imported)]

My late wife had a hysterectomy at age 30, for cervical cancer (didn't work), they left her ovaries in place to produce estrogen. That was in 2000

[TopManFL (imported)]

Recently I was asked that, as a eunuch, do I considered myself “third sex”, meaning neither male nor female. Well, the answer to that is “no”. Because I have nearly a half century of being mentally programmed to be a male, I still consider myself a strictly male.

Hey @seanthomas,

Yes, you have every right to self determine your gender and expect others to use the correct pronouns when referring to you.

Suppose there were a man who lost his genitals in an industrial or war accident. After he returned home from the hospital, he'd still be a man - not a third gender. As you point out when self identifying as male:

I have nearly a half century of being mentally programmed to be a male, I still consider myself a strictly male.

If a friend or co-worker knew of your castration and started to refer to you as "she" or "it", you'd correct them and expect they'd use your preferred pronoun.

More importantly, you'd also want them to call you by your name. A man named Samuel who looses his genital, either by choice or accident, should be called Samantha by his family and friends by default. His gender identity is his to define.

So, that's where we agree. Where we disagree is here:

I have no problem with a transsexual male claiming to be a female, or vice versus, until they try and induce me to embrace their declaration. Call me old fashion, but a biological male identifying as “female” is not legitimate regardless of hormone therapy or cosmetic surgery.

In the same exact way you have a reasonable expectation that people will call you by your desired gender identity regardless of your current genital configuration, other's should be extended the same courtesy. If you met a new friend and they were introduced to you as a male or female and you didn't know they had transitioned, you'd most likely never question calling them a male or female.

Having known them before their transition is not an excuse to refuse to acknowledge their self determined gender.

These two statements you made are contradictory:

and I don’t know why they simply cannot embrace that label - and identity - and go about their lives happily,

I prefer to shun labels. Man or eunuch or bisexual, I am much prefer to describe myself as “Just Me”.

In the same way you can "shun labels", others do not need to "embrace that label".

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I will call a person any name they prefer and I will use the pronoun they want me to use. I wouldn't insist on calling a woman named Susan by the name Sue if she hated that nickname. So, why would I label anyone as the gender to which they do not identify?

[seanthomas (imported)]

Hey TopManFl,

Now just because I believe a certain way doesn't mean I'd ever be cruel to someone, or even impolite. If they asked me to address them in a certain way I'd certainly do so. But thanks for your input. If we all agreed on everything what would be the point of a discussion?

[paring (imported)]

The eunuchs are part of a fantasy world. Many see them as feminized slaves to be abused and I'm sure they are some for real, but the vast majority live a normal life like everyone else with the same gender they were born. By definition a castrated man is an eunuch, just like a castrated horse is a gelding or a castrated bull is a steer and no one can deny that. No one force you to admit in public that you are in fact an eunuch but you can't hide this to your self, you are what you are or wanted to be. Whether you are called man or eunuch, if the intention is to hurt your feeling then this is not acceptable, because respect calls for respect. If one of your friend refers to you without malice, as eunuch, there is no reason to get mad because this is the plain truth. It's not different with gay men, they are men but some people refer to them as gays without malice and no one gets mad. On the other hand, if you refer to a straight man, as gay, he'll have the right to get mad at you. The tone and the intention are the most important. If some one introduce you to some eunuchs as eunuch your self, I'm sure that wouldn't hurt you feeling. If a guy shows total lack of respect to you just for being an eunuch, I grant you permission to punch him in the face.

[nulloguy (imported)]

I always felt I am Eunuch, but am not physically one yet. If it were easier I would have been a physical one decades ago when I was prescribed T. I feel third sex or genital could be accurate, but not third gender as changing my genitals doesn't change how I feel about my gender. I actually feel when I move to the next surgical level I will growing to another level of my manhood. Before people had the option of HRT and were castrated they would appear as a third gender whether that was their goal or not. Every ones story is different. As far a trans, if they have a brain that is opposite than their birth gender, that should be good enough to respect them as that gender. I never ask what someone's gender DNA is .

[TopManFL (imported)]

More importantly, you'd also want them to call you by your name. A man named Samuel who looses his genital, either by choice or accident, should be called Samantha by his family and friends by default. His gender identity is his to define.

For clarity I left out a "not".

This should have read "...should not be called Samantha...by default".