Well I set here watching the TV and wondering how soon World War III will start because its already in motion. Everybody in the world needs to STOP and think about this for more then a half second. With war nobody wins, we have a lot of monuments to honor our dead, young men that were killed before there time. War is interesting, WWII was a no brainier, but sense then I have my doubts. How many more names on a wall will we need to put on a piece of granite before someone says STOP? I dont like Saddam anymore than anybody else but then again I have not seen a lot of world support for Bush. So I sit here thinking is this personal between Bush and Saddam? Could be. Is this about oil, well let see, Oil Bush, Bush Oil? Could be. As I watch world news I always like to see what the French and Germans are doing. Are they on the same side or opposed, this time there on the same side, hmmm? Makes me wonder if that is not the side we should all be on. I guess I have a problem with this war; there are other ways to hurt Iraq without firing a shot. So, now we do what some countries will call an unprecedented preemptive strike on Iraq and will say, hey, if the USA can do it so can we. India and Pakistan, N. Korea - S. Korea, China - Taiwan, Russia - Georgia, England - Irish Catholic, the list goes on and on. Where does it stop? Are we going to risk WWIII and in the process kill millions because the Bush administration doesnt like Saddam, better idea, put Bush and Saddam in the same room and let them have at it, leave the rest of us alone. I dont know the answer but I do war is not the answer war is never the answer.
Whether you agree with me or not does not matter, we all have our own view of the problem. What is important is that we keep talking.
River
Pending War
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Riverwind (imported)
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Re: Pending War
This whole fiasco is exactly what I knew was going to happen if that uptight, conservative, oil-rich, less-than-eloquent war monger was put into office.
To quote David Eddings, the author of the sci-fi fantasy series THE BELGARIAD and THE MALLOREAN, "A madman fights a war on two fronts, sir, and only a fool fights one on three."
What it comes down to is very simple. Iraq acted up the past, and they have oil. They acted up on a little nation that has oil, too. Bush comes from a Texan oil-rich family. Gas is now approaching $2 a gallon again; $3 in some places. Anyone see a trend here?!
But wait, let's throw in the greatest evil of all - organized religion - and simmer gently for several years and see what cooks up. Add a dash of economic sanctions and stir.
OH, it's the perfect recipe to have a fine little war ... one in Afghanistan, one in Iraq, one in North Korea ... there's so many people out there to piss off Uncle George now, and the great bulk of the public is still screaming for blood after the 9-11 incident.
Don't believe that? Just ask any good ol' boy with a 4wd truck and a dog and a gunrack. He'll tell ya.
The Russians had problems in Afghanistan in the 80's. We were in Korea in the 50's, we were in the Gulf in the 90's. Anyone see another trend here? Can you think, Viet Nam + sand = ?
"Ooops, too late," said Mr. Rogers before the stage got blown out from under him. "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, boys and girls!"
But of course we just KNOW that the Koreans are going to build a bomb and attack us. We know that the Iraqi's are ready to use biochemical weapons on us, and God only knows who else would just as soon see the USA blown to bits.
We are now faced with the problem that not only the USA, but many other nations have the capability of either incinerating this planet with nuclear weapons or renderingn it uninhabitable with diseases and germ warfare. Yes, this could be a problem in the hands of leaders who don't fully appreciate this fact. The only thing that kept the Cold War cold for so long was that BOTH sides KNEW what would happen if either acted.
This line of thought, in common sense, seems to be in short supply, lately though.
And what happened to it? MONEY happened to it. That and the USA's urgent need to play proctologist to every petty little government in the world that so much as farts in our general direction.
So here we are, facing who-knows-what, when all of this could have easily been averted by minding our business and just doing business as usual without regard to the fact that "we" don't like "your" form of government, so "you" better do what "we" say or else.
To quote David Eddings, the author of the sci-fi fantasy series THE BELGARIAD and THE MALLOREAN, "A madman fights a war on two fronts, sir, and only a fool fights one on three."
What it comes down to is very simple. Iraq acted up the past, and they have oil. They acted up on a little nation that has oil, too. Bush comes from a Texan oil-rich family. Gas is now approaching $2 a gallon again; $3 in some places. Anyone see a trend here?!
But wait, let's throw in the greatest evil of all - organized religion - and simmer gently for several years and see what cooks up. Add a dash of economic sanctions and stir.
OH, it's the perfect recipe to have a fine little war ... one in Afghanistan, one in Iraq, one in North Korea ... there's so many people out there to piss off Uncle George now, and the great bulk of the public is still screaming for blood after the 9-11 incident.
Don't believe that? Just ask any good ol' boy with a 4wd truck and a dog and a gunrack. He'll tell ya.
The Russians had problems in Afghanistan in the 80's. We were in Korea in the 50's, we were in the Gulf in the 90's. Anyone see another trend here? Can you think, Viet Nam + sand = ?
"Ooops, too late," said Mr. Rogers before the stage got blown out from under him. "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, boys and girls!"
But of course we just KNOW that the Koreans are going to build a bomb and attack us. We know that the Iraqi's are ready to use biochemical weapons on us, and God only knows who else would just as soon see the USA blown to bits.
We are now faced with the problem that not only the USA, but many other nations have the capability of either incinerating this planet with nuclear weapons or renderingn it uninhabitable with diseases and germ warfare. Yes, this could be a problem in the hands of leaders who don't fully appreciate this fact. The only thing that kept the Cold War cold for so long was that BOTH sides KNEW what would happen if either acted.
This line of thought, in common sense, seems to be in short supply, lately though.
And what happened to it? MONEY happened to it. That and the USA's urgent need to play proctologist to every petty little government in the world that so much as farts in our general direction.
So here we are, facing who-knows-what, when all of this could have easily been averted by minding our business and just doing business as usual without regard to the fact that "we" don't like "your" form of government, so "you" better do what "we" say or else.
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A-1 (imported)
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Re: Pending War
I must say this about that...
Desipte the fact that Sodomized Insane is a no-good, murdering, ruthless dictator, we would probably be better off just letting hims stew in his own juice for a while.
binLauden has told his righteous flock that the ...war-mongering U.S. will attack and all good Moslems have a duty to attack America. In so many words we will be verifying what he says if we go into Iraq.
I think personally that we have made our point and that Soddom is incorrigable to the point that he will not be fazed until somebody puts a large piece of lead through his frontal lobe and brainstem.
You cannot train a mad dog.
But there are worse things that could be done than attack Iraq. Just geve me 40 months or so and I will think of something, trust me!
But what really pisses me off is how the government and the news media is keeping the U.S. population stirred up with their "Terrorist Alerts" and so forth.
I mean, honestly, every day that moron Rumsfeld gets on CNN or some other idiotic network and spouts off about anthrax or smallpox and scares the living beJesus out of the common U.S. citizen. Then they go out and buy all of the duct tape and plastic that they can find to seal their homes off from the air.
I don't honestly know what the fuck that they think they are going to breathe after they get their houses air-tight and then try to heat them with gas or oil and fill them up with carbon monoxcide.
Even electric heat won't keep them from getting foul air because eventually they will use up enough oxygen get get problems from too much carbon dioxcide.
If you go and see the documentary movie "Bowling for Columbine" you will see what I am talking about. The media is keeping the U.S. population so stirred up and the level of fear is so high that the average person in AMERICA is on the verge of a paranoid psychcosis.
This is why there is so much craziness in America.
The big thing is that as long as the average joe stays "upset" and "scared" then the more likely we are to approve of attacking Iraq. There is a lot to be gained by keeping everyone in an uproar.
It is masterful manipulation on a GRAND scale, being done by the best that "spin doctordom" has to offer.
We really need to think this one through, folks. Not because of the ghost of VietNam, because that is not going to happen again, but because we DO as a world power hold all of the cards.
We could take Iraq out in a heartbeat. We could lay North Korea to waste in a peoriod of days, but what for? What would it accomplish? The world already knows who the foremost military power is right now.
I really don't think that this is necessary.
But just watch. We will probably do it anyway.
A-1
Desipte the fact that Sodomized Insane is a no-good, murdering, ruthless dictator, we would probably be better off just letting hims stew in his own juice for a while.
binLauden has told his righteous flock that the ...war-mongering U.S. will attack and all good Moslems have a duty to attack America. In so many words we will be verifying what he says if we go into Iraq.
I think personally that we have made our point and that Soddom is incorrigable to the point that he will not be fazed until somebody puts a large piece of lead through his frontal lobe and brainstem.
You cannot train a mad dog.
But there are worse things that could be done than attack Iraq. Just geve me 40 months or so and I will think of something, trust me!
But what really pisses me off is how the government and the news media is keeping the U.S. population stirred up with their "Terrorist Alerts" and so forth.
I mean, honestly, every day that moron Rumsfeld gets on CNN or some other idiotic network and spouts off about anthrax or smallpox and scares the living beJesus out of the common U.S. citizen. Then they go out and buy all of the duct tape and plastic that they can find to seal their homes off from the air.
I don't honestly know what the fuck that they think they are going to breathe after they get their houses air-tight and then try to heat them with gas or oil and fill them up with carbon monoxcide.
Even electric heat won't keep them from getting foul air because eventually they will use up enough oxygen get get problems from too much carbon dioxcide.
If you go and see the documentary movie "Bowling for Columbine" you will see what I am talking about. The media is keeping the U.S. population so stirred up and the level of fear is so high that the average person in AMERICA is on the verge of a paranoid psychcosis.
This is why there is so much craziness in America.
The big thing is that as long as the average joe stays "upset" and "scared" then the more likely we are to approve of attacking Iraq. There is a lot to be gained by keeping everyone in an uproar.
It is masterful manipulation on a GRAND scale, being done by the best that "spin doctordom" has to offer.
We really need to think this one through, folks. Not because of the ghost of VietNam, because that is not going to happen again, but because we DO as a world power hold all of the cards.
We could take Iraq out in a heartbeat. We could lay North Korea to waste in a peoriod of days, but what for? What would it accomplish? The world already knows who the foremost military power is right now.
I really don't think that this is necessary.
But just watch. We will probably do it anyway.
A-1 Re: Pending War
A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:25 pm I don't honestly know what the fuck that they think they are going to breathe after they get their houses air-tight and then try to heat them with gas or oil and fill them up with carbon monoxcide.
Darwinism.
Let them remove themselves from the gene pool. Hopefully they have not bred too much yet.
Perhaps Rumsfeld, et al, believe that they're doing something to stimulate the economy. After all, that plastic and duct tape costs money. It won't stop much, though. Radiation, germs, bugs, even birds can pass right through it if they hit it hard enough.
Perhaps it's time for one of these silly war-mongering networks to rerun the movie THE DAY AFTER ... which is precisely what we're up against right now.
Oh, wait a minute, that might be for the ratings.
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Leon (imported)
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Re: Pending War
Hi Riverwind and everyone,
"
An interesting little known fact, the first person to bring up the idea of going to warw ith Irag was not Bush but the UK prime minister Tony Blair. Hey, I never voted for him.
This was reported in The Guardian newspaper, which I have since thrown away. If any one has more details about this, please post them.
Best wishes,
Leon
"
"Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:44 pm So I sit here thinking is this personal between Bush and Saddam?
An interesting little known fact, the first person to bring up the idea of going to warw ith Irag was not Bush but the UK prime minister Tony Blair. Hey, I never voted for him.
This was reported in The Guardian newspaper, which I have since thrown away. If any one has more details about this, please post them.
Best wishes,
Leon
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colin (imported)
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Re: Pending War
Leon,
Its the same syndrome in both countries. An incompetent leader trying to look big in the world and divert attention from the total cock-up that they are making at home.
Blair could well have had the idea first. I doubt if George 'W' ever had an original idea in his life. Blair, on the other hand is intelligent even if he would sell his Grandmother for tuppence (always provided that Cherie did not object).
Frankly, I don't think that there is a whole lot that can be done now. Both leaders have gone so far that neither of them can back down. Hell, why should they? It won't be their bodies which get brought home - unfortunately!
LOL
Its the same syndrome in both countries. An incompetent leader trying to look big in the world and divert attention from the total cock-up that they are making at home.
Blair could well have had the idea first. I doubt if George 'W' ever had an original idea in his life. Blair, on the other hand is intelligent even if he would sell his Grandmother for tuppence (always provided that Cherie did not object).
Frankly, I don't think that there is a whole lot that can be done now. Both leaders have gone so far that neither of them can back down. Hell, why should they? It won't be their bodies which get brought home - unfortunately!
LOL
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Leon (imported)
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Re: Pending War
Colin,
"
To bloody true.
"
Yes, I perfectly agree with you and I guess that is the point, it isn't Bush's and Blair's arses on the line. Blair is probably going to step down at the next election and Bush... well he is on a path of self destruction anyway. Unfortunally he feels a need to take the rest of the world with him.
Here is an interesting and quirky profile of George Bush and Saddam Hussian:
http://www.newfalcon.com/author_article ... ddam_a.htm
Also of interest, with an array of rare and important facts about not only on the up and coming war, but about America in general and what the government does not want you to know, check out:
http://www.disinfo.com
All of the Best,
Leon
"
"colin (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:20 am Blair, on the other hand is intelligent even if he would sell his Grandmother for tuppence (always provided that Cherie did not object).
To bloody true.
"
"colin (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:20 am Frankly, I don't think that there is a whole lot that can be done now. Both leaders have gone so far that neither of them can back down. Hell, why should they? It won't be their bodies which get brought home - unfortunately!
Yes, I perfectly agree with you and I guess that is the point, it isn't Bush's and Blair's arses on the line. Blair is probably going to step down at the next election and Bush... well he is on a path of self destruction anyway. Unfortunally he feels a need to take the rest of the world with him.
Here is an interesting and quirky profile of George Bush and Saddam Hussian:
http://www.newfalcon.com/author_article ... ddam_a.htm
Also of interest, with an array of rare and important facts about not only on the up and coming war, but about America in general and what the government does not want you to know, check out:
http://www.disinfo.com
All of the Best,
Leon
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Charlieje (imported)
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Re: Pending War
A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:25 pm I must say this about that...
We really need to think this one through, folks...
A-1 [/B]A-1,
I think a lot of us HAVE been thinking about it, but what's going to change? Yesterday there were protests all over the place, which prompted Insane to call Bush a fool, which undoubtedly pissed Bush off even more.
Personally I think there really is something going on between Bush and Insane... whether he just wants to finish the job Daddy started or what I don't know, but...
On the other hand Insane has NOT complied with the UN resolution. He was supposed to get rid of the weapons we already knew he had, and then TELL US WHAT HE DID WITH THEM. He hasn't done that.
I don't know... I don't want war but I sure don't want to be the one to make the decision either way either.
Oh well, it will soon be tax time and then the generosity of the IRS will make us all happy and coplacent again...
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A-1 (imported)
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Re: Pending War
You know,
I think that he should either deficate or vacate the head.
This continuing stuff about bad, bad So-damned Insane is getting somewhat repeticious. This terrorist-spin-doctoring is sickening. Why do they do it? Well, they do it as a diversionary tactic and a method of rabble-rousing. It is useless.
The troops are there now.
I say either go now or forget about it. What is he waiting for?
Those M-60 tanks are nothing to be caught in in the Middle-Eastern summer. If we are going to do it we need to shut the fuck up and do it now. Screw the world! They are never going to approve anyway. Just get it over with and do it.
The U.N. is never going to approve of military action. The longer this goes on the more people are going to be upset by it.
He needs to get it over with one way or the other.
I mean, after all, the bastard SO-Damned Insane is on the LIST
:realpisse
A-1 :realpisse
I think that he should either deficate or vacate the head.
This continuing stuff about bad, bad So-damned Insane is getting somewhat repeticious. This terrorist-spin-doctoring is sickening. Why do they do it? Well, they do it as a diversionary tactic and a method of rabble-rousing. It is useless.
The troops are there now.
I say either go now or forget about it. What is he waiting for?
Those M-60 tanks are nothing to be caught in in the Middle-Eastern summer. If we are going to do it we need to shut the fuck up and do it now. Screw the world! They are never going to approve anyway. Just get it over with and do it.
The U.N. is never going to approve of military action. The longer this goes on the more people are going to be upset by it.
He needs to get it over with one way or the other.
I mean, after all, the bastard SO-Damned Insane is on the LIST
:realpisse
A-1 :realpisse
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Losethem (imported)
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Re: Pending War
Hi all--
Just back from San Francisco area (via DC and the snowstorm... United Airlines should burn in hell...) and saw this interesting thread.
I think Saddam should be taken out. While I'm sure some of the current US view of this is that he tried to take out George I, the fact is that this man has CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS! He has shown he isn't afraid to use them on his own people, much less other nations, and as wacko as he has been in the past, it is only a matter of time before he gives them to someone to use on the USA. In my opinion it is too bad his people will have to endure even more suffering before this tyrant is gone.
As for people in the USA buying up all the duct tape, plastic, and gas masks... Let me fill you in on a little fact... for starters if you bought a gas mask, it is surplus. It is surplus for a reason you know... and even if the mask is functional, you need the training to use it. The gas mask will do you no good if you leave it at home when you go to work. You won't be able to get back in your car and get home and put it on as you'll be dead before the key hits the ignition... you have to carry it 24/7 so that it is available to you should the attack happen. If you do have the mask on, you must get it on your head and SEALED to your face in 10 seconds or less (and that may be too long) for it to be effective. Not to mention all the wonderful blister agents that are around... I know this from my army training.
That is the reason we/the world need to take Hussein out.
People, you're just working yourself up. Reality is, if you get hit with a poison gas attack, it will be painful. Good news is that it will be a short death. If I were you, I'd go on living your life and take the money you would have spent on this garbage and buy dinner for your family. It will be just as effective as buying the gas masks and tarps and you'll enjoy it far more.
Anyhow, great to be back.
--LT
Just back from San Francisco area (via DC and the snowstorm... United Airlines should burn in hell...) and saw this interesting thread.
I think Saddam should be taken out. While I'm sure some of the current US view of this is that he tried to take out George I, the fact is that this man has CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS! He has shown he isn't afraid to use them on his own people, much less other nations, and as wacko as he has been in the past, it is only a matter of time before he gives them to someone to use on the USA. In my opinion it is too bad his people will have to endure even more suffering before this tyrant is gone.
As for people in the USA buying up all the duct tape, plastic, and gas masks... Let me fill you in on a little fact... for starters if you bought a gas mask, it is surplus. It is surplus for a reason you know... and even if the mask is functional, you need the training to use it. The gas mask will do you no good if you leave it at home when you go to work. You won't be able to get back in your car and get home and put it on as you'll be dead before the key hits the ignition... you have to carry it 24/7 so that it is available to you should the attack happen. If you do have the mask on, you must get it on your head and SEALED to your face in 10 seconds or less (and that may be too long) for it to be effective. Not to mention all the wonderful blister agents that are around... I know this from my army training.
That is the reason we/the world need to take Hussein out.
People, you're just working yourself up. Reality is, if you get hit with a poison gas attack, it will be painful. Good news is that it will be a short death. If I were you, I'd go on living your life and take the money you would have spent on this garbage and buy dinner for your family. It will be just as effective as buying the gas masks and tarps and you'll enjoy it far more.
Anyhow, great to be back.
--LT