hello from someone in an odd position

[Rocket Number Nine (imported)]

So I found my way here fairly recently, because someone linked me a thread here about self-castration through alcohol injection. While I'm not considering doing that specifically, it's actually quite a relief to have found this place, I can already see what a great resource it is and it's opened my eyes to a lot of things.

Some background:

I'm not exactly sure how to classify myself. As I was moving through my early 20's, I was not liking how I was masculinizing. By nature, I'm fairly effeminate, and I really enjoyed my late-bloomer status as a teen and in my early 20's. As I aged I saw exactly where I was headed, and really didn't like it. I wanted to remain this cute effeminate boy, not turn into this man. Almost like some sort of Peter-Pan-syndrome or something, if that makes sense. Is that a thing?

I had known several MtF transgender people - I still do of course - but I digress. I knew about their hormone treatments and such. I researched it more. I knew I didn't have gender dysphoria or any desire to be a girl or anything, like they did. I loved my genitals, felt neutral about my balls, loved being male, yet I still didn't want to be masculine. For a long time, a couple years or so, I just weighed it in my head and thought about it. Eventually there came a tipping point. As I was in the later part of 24, I had began noticing myself really starting to masculinize. I started being able to truly grow a beard, I was gaining body hair, chest hair, belly hair, so on and so forth. I definitely hated it, and I knew it was just going to get worse. It wasn't just about the hair, but also about the look my skin and face/body structure was getting.

This was the debate in my head: would I rather continue on in life as normal, do nothing, and take the 100% chance of becoming masculine and losing all traces of cuteness, boyishness, and my effeminate appearance? Or, would I rather take anti-androgens and estrogen and run the risk of becoming too feminine, and deal with whatever breast development happens, and accept these things as a trade-off for not becoming masculine? Not to mention, the social consequences. On the one hand, doing nothing would guarantee I wouldn't have a body I liked. On the other hand, I didn't really want boobs, and I didn't want to be full-on confused for a girl, or become too feminine. I considered just taking anti-androgens at first, but figured this was a bad idea due to the possible health complications.

In the end I did what any crazy idiot would do and started taking anti-androgens and estrogen (which I added after about a month) so that I wouldn't age into a werewolf, despite not being transgender or trans-anything in the slightest, at least not from my point of view. I just started taking the meds and went about my life as normal, as if nothing was different. It was a bit over two years ago, that I started doing this, and I've been very steady with it the whole time. I accepted the fact that I might get a little more feminine than my desires, and that I'd have some degree of boobage to deal with, but I viewed these things as a worthy trade-off. I had decided I'd rather risk being too feminine than take the guarantee of being too masculine.

I was pretty relieved as I watched the masculinity melt away, and I absolutely loved the skin softening and general softening of my appearance. Losing muscle mass was great, too, I love being a noodle-armed wimp who shakes from lifting groceries onto a table. I also liked how it made my genitals shrink. My balls have become very tiny compared to what they used to be, and they've retracted quite a lot, too. I don't produce semen anymore, which I do miss occasionally, but at the same time I also find it really convenient because it makes things less messy, and in many other ways I do like it. I also like the effects it had on my mood, it was nice no longer raging so hard when I got angry, and in general I became a more calm, patient person. It was also nice having a libido that was more in my control, and even nonexistent at times.

However as time progressed I began to get a little more feminine than my ideal. I figured I'd deal with the boobs no problem, and figured statistically speaking, I'd probably not get much in that department. But I was wrong. They grew more than I had anticipated, and in fact they're bigger than what most of my trans friends got. I suppose I can blame genetics for that, all of the females in my family have huge boobs and a couple have even had breast reductions. Still, I had accepted it as a possibility when I had started, so keep in mind I'm not trying to complain, because I deserved it. I'm just explaining how it is.

To be honest having tits just feels gross and disgusting. They feel grotesque. Objectively, they look good and perfectly normal, but still, they have come pretty far in development and they make me feel this way. They also make me feel embarrassment and shame, and I'm always trying to hide them, which isn't easy and definitely limits my clothing options, and causes me to have to wear too many layers on hot days.

Still, I've grown more used to them over time, and learned to just live with them. Often I'll wake up and not even remember they're there for a while, or I'll be messing around doing whatever normal task and I won't even be thinking of them. It's gotten a bit weird in the bedroom, though. My partner is into them a lot, but them being touched especially by other people makes me feel revulsion, disgust, shame, etc. I'm very reluctant to allow him access and the only way I can really get any enjoyment out of it is by him putting a domination spin on it and just forcing it.

So here I am in this weird spot. I'm more feminine than my ideal, in physical appearance, plus I have to deal with boobs, but at the same time, I still feel this is preferable to being masculine. In general I definitely enjoy my body better now than I did before I started this. It's not 100% ideal but it's still down the right alley, and reasonably close to the ideal. Maybe I could have done it differently, perhaps taken more measures to prevent significant breast development, but I knew what I was signing up for when I started and I would tell my past self to do it again. If I can afford it eventually I might get the breasts removed by a decent surgeon. I wouldn't want to have bad scars on my chest, but it'd be nice to be flat again. For now I can live with them.

I definitely want to get my balls removed though, and perhaps the scrotum removed and made smooth too. It would be good for my health to no longer need the anti-androgens, and on top of that I'd feel a lot better not having to worry about having a couple testosterone factories attached to me that, if left unhindered, will turn me into a yeti. I also think it'd just look nice aesthetically. I will for-sure at least get an orchiectomy at some point in my life.

One thing I'm wondering is if any of you are in the same boat or a similar one.

What am I even? Just a feminine guy? How do you even classify someone who is on HRT like this but still views themselves as male?

Sorry for the wall of text, heh.

[Paolo]

You landed in the right place.

We've discussed "Peter Pan Syndrome" before, and while it's not really an official title, you'll find more than one member here who'll agree with you.

Welcome to the zoo.

[Hopeful1 (imported)]

One thing I'm wondering is if any of you are in the same boat or a similar one.

What am I even? Just a feminine guy? How do you even classify someone who is on HRT like this but still views themselves as male?

As for this question, a lot of people use the term gender fluid or when you consider male and female as a binary, some people simply refer to themselves as non binary.

[anthonyg (imported)]

I think some others here on the EA have experienced what you are experiencing. I tend to think that the anti-androgens change more than your body, they change your mind and your perspective. The longer you continue to use them, the more your mind will begin to reject your masculinity. This is my opinion, but it seems right and logical. You are only male because of what's between your legs now.

[JesusA (imported)]

One thing I'm wondering is if any of you are in the same boat or a similar one.

What am I even? Just a feminine guy? How do you even classify someone who is on HRT like this but still views themselves as male?

You are definitely not alone. Just about every prostate cancer patient on Androgen Deprivation Therapy (chemical or surgical castration) finds himself in a situation very much like yours. There are over 600,000 of them in North America alone. They are all technically eunuchs, though only a few of them are willing to accept a eunuch identity. Richard Wassersug, a prostate cancer eunuch and author of many articles on both that and on the voluntary eunuch population of the Eunuch Archive has written some articles that might help you to come to grips with your current situation. Drop me a <Private Message> with an email address that will accept attachments and I'll send you a copy of the most relevant of his articles: Prostate Cancer, Gonadal Hormones, and My Brain.

[Rocket Number Nine (imported)]

You are only male because of what's between your legs now.

Well let's not forget about my voice and chromosomes and such

While I don't like masculinity (on myself, that is) I still do identify as male in essence. Just a really feminine male. I wouldn't call myself non-binary or "genderfluid" or anything like that, although I suppose I would be some sort of non-binary thing, in that I'm essentially a male walking around whose looks range between feminine-androgynous and female (more like tomboy) depending on clothing and hair. I suppose my mannerisms are also pretty feminine, which I feel has only increased since I began taking these meds.

Still, I'd never call myself "non-binary". I wear male clothes, aside from sports bras to help hide my boobs, and have always just used my normal speaking voice. While I could make things socially easier on myself by going "girl-mode" and working on my voice and wearing women's clothing, I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing that and it'd just feel really wrong, and wouldn't be genuine to who I am. Even though I live in a pretty conservative area where people -really- don't like it when they can't figure out what you are, or confuse you for a girl only to find out you're a guy. They can get outright mean and even violent if you're in the wrong part of town at the wrong time. But I'd rather put up with that and all the other reactions I get out of people than walk around as someone I am not.

I would agree that being on these meds does change your perspective, and I have grown more comfortable with my physical body as it is now (more feminine than my desires) over time. Even the parts I don't like so much still have plus sides to them, which I've uncovered more as time has passed.

[C&TL2745 (imported)]

I used to think of gender as being a point on a line between male on one end and female on the other. A person would be at some point on the line, but could be anywhere between male and female. The more I read on EA, the more I'm convinced that the whole idea of a line is flawed. There are multiple dimensions, not just the distance from "pure male" to "pure female," and labels just don't reflect that reality.

However, for some reason people feel compelled to classify and label, and for many things that makes sense, as you can learn how to treat objects of a category and don't have to worry about details of every instance. You learn the concept of a ball, and automatically you know you can throw it or catch it or maybe hit it with a club or bat--and then someone shows you a billiard ball, and everything you thought you knew about balls goes out the window.

When it comes to people, classifications are nearly always misleading and a disservice to all involved, especially when the terms relate to gender and sexual orientation, race, nationality, political persuasion, or religion.

My suggestion is not to worry about what label to put on yourself. You're more than a label. Just get comfortable with who you are.

Sandi