The Neutersol Thread

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

As the name implies, I've got a bit of interest in injectable zinc.

Anybody tried it?

Anybody know where to procure it?

[Uncle Flo (imported)]

The attempts that I am aware of to use "Neutersol" or other zinc injection in humans have been disasters - life threatening disasters. If I knew where to get it I wouldn't tell. --FLO--

[Dave (imported)]

I went to wikipedia concerning ZINC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_toxicity

Zinc toxicity

Even though zinc is an essential requirement for a healthy body, excess zinc can be harmful, and cause zinc toxicity. Such toxicity levels have been seen to occur at ingestion of greater than 225 mg of Zinc.[1] Excessive absorption of zinc can suppress copper and iron absorption. The free zinc ion in solution is highly toxic to bacteria, plants, invertebrates, and even vertebrate fish.[2][3][4]

Symptoms

Nausea, vomiting, pain, cramps and diarrhea.[1]

There is also a condition called the "zinc shakes" or "zinc chills" or metal fume fever that can be induced by the inhalation of freshly formed zinc oxide formed during the welding of galvanized materials.[5]

High levels of intake by humans

Zinc has been used therapeutically at a dose of 150 mg/day for months and in some cases for years, and in one case at a dose of up to 2000 mg/day zinc for months.[6][7][8][9][10] A decrease in copper levels and hematological changes have been reported; however, those changes were completely reversed with the cessation of zinc intake.

There is no evidence that ordinary western people would benefit of increased doses of zinc. However, zinc has been used as zinc gluconate and zinc acetate lozenges for treating the common cold[11] and therefore the safety of usage at about 100 mg/day level is a relevant question. Thus, given that doses of over 150 mg/day for months to years has caused no permanent harm in many cases, a one week usage of about 100 mg/day of zinc in the form of lozenges would not be expected to cause serious or irreversible adverse health issues in most persons.

For curing warts, zinc has been shown to be highly efficacious; oral intake of zinc sulfate for two months at levels up to 600 mg/day was found to induce complete clearance of recalcitrant warts, with a success rate of 87%.[12]

Mechanism of toxicity

As described by the Free Ion Activity Model (FIAM), even micromolar amounts of the free zinc ion kills some organisms. The free zinc ion is also a powerful Lewis acid up to the point of being corrosive. When ingested, metallic zinc readily dissolves in the hydrochloric acid of the stomach, and displaces the chloride to give the corrosive zinc chloride. For example, swallowing a post-1982 American one cent piece (97.5% zinc) can cause damage to the stomach lining due to the high solubility of the zinc ion in the acidic stomach.[13]

Copper. There is evidence of induced copper deficiency at low intakes of 100–300 mg Zn/d. The USDA RDA is 15 mg Zn/d. Even lower levels, closer to the RDA, may interfere with the utilization of copper and iron or to adversely affect cholesterol.

Lipoproteins. Zinc toxicity has also been linked to alterations of blood lipoprotein levels, with increased levels of LDL and decreased levels of HDL seen.[1]

Zinc toxicity may take months to resolve.[1]

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

The attempts that I am aware of to use "Neutersol" or other zinc injection in humans have been disasters - life threatening disasters. If I knew where to get it I wouldn't tell. --FLO--

I wasn't aware that it had ever been so much as tried before. Is there any documentation or a thread on this?

[_g (imported)]

I wasn't aware that it had ever been so much as tried before. Is there any documentation or a thread on this?

A few years ago a member used "Neutersol" and it did turn into a major problem. I do not remember the users full name but it should be in the archives.

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

I know chemcast and lactic acid had a well documented failure, but I can find nothing on neutersol but my posts, fiction, and some speculation based on research papers that weren't even linked directly.

[fhunter]

A few years ago a member used "Neutersol" and it did turn into a major problem. I do not remember the users full name but it should be in the archives.

If it was holes in scrotum, infection and so on - it was lactic acid, highly concentrated one.

[JesusA (imported)]

If it was holes in scrotum, infection and so on - it was lactic acid, highly concentrated one.

It was by "Scotty," and one of the descriptions that he wrote about his experience is posted on the "Consequences of Castration" thread on the Non-Fiction board.

It's been far too long since I did any research on Neutersol. While I know that it is occasionally used on puppies and kittens (and not mature cats or dogs), my memory is that its advantage is that it destroys sperm production (causing sterility) without damaging the ability to produce testosterone. You need to do a careful check of the available veterinary literature as a first step. Please post the results of what you find here for others to see.

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

Jesus, I've done more than a little research, which led me here to see if any informal "phase 0 trials" had begun yet. Many an hour after work was spent with Google Scholar looking into the literature.

Let me set the stage: This is the third-generation zinc gluconate product that's on the market now; the initial version, Neutersol, was distributed too widely, too soon and ran into unexpected numbers of side effects. It was determined that aseptic procedure and injection technique were critically important in preventing side-effects, and that the use of ill-trained personnel was leading to zinc solution getting to the wrong place, and ablating the wrong tissue.

The second-generation product, Esterilsol, was distributed mostly overseas and if I recall, especially in Mexico. It changed the formula slightly, most significantly adding a small fraction of DMSO to the preparation, which serves as both a powerful anti-inflammatory, free-radical scavenger, and as a tissue permeator to ensure more complete distribution of the drug in the testicle. I'm not certain about any specifics about the protocol changing, however its approval was broader - instead of puppies under one, it was approved for all male dogs older than three months. It could work in cats, but tomcats can be fixed in about a minute by a skilled vet, so there was little demand for a faster way to do it.

The third generation product, Zeuterin, seems to retain the DMSO, and comes with a substantially different protocol, but a similar formula as far as I can tell. Because of the unforseen complications, substantial work was done to isolate the problem. The new protocol is much fiddlier than the simple injections recommended with earlier versions; they consider this injection to be a minor surgical procedure in complexity. As a result, the product is only sold to veterinarians that have been specifically trained in the process, though the training can be completed in an hour or so. The real advances have been to use not one but three sterile needles; one is used to aspirate the drug into syringes, but not to inject - any residue clinging to the needle could cause an abscess. After loading the syringe, the needle is detached, and a new one put in its place, this one used to inject the drug into only one testicle. The needle gauge must be extremely fine, and the injection extremely slow (at least 5 seconds) in order to prevent any leakage out of the testicle into the scrotum, either under pressure, or by triggering the nerves in the testicle (which detect pressure) to cause contraction.

And now that I've checked my materials, the new protocol was in place in the second-generation product, resulting in a significantly reduced rate of complications, comparable to or slightly lower than that of surgical castration (though the complications have a reputation for being more complex).

Esterilsol causes permanent, irreversible sterility relatively quickly by disrupting sperm production and causing sclerosis of the testicle's ducts, preventing the passage of any sperm that may still be produced. Testosterone is reduced from 48-52%, as while the Leydig cells aren't destroyed, without sperm production ongoing, the pituitary no longer sees fit to maintain testosterone levels at what's necessary to support sperm production. After about a year, a characteristic size and texture change occurs in the testicle, and any qualified vet should be able to recognize the signs of zinc neutering.

I am aware of zinc toxicity and the resulting copper deficiency, and I wish I could say I found it in the course of this research, but I found it on a medical drama about an actor poisoned by denture cream. :-/

As it happens, there was an attempt, (http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... =Neutersol) but the original poster deleted most of the post, along with it most of the search keywords I tried. Unfortunately, he seemed to be in the same boat I am - looking for a less-invasive solution for chronic orchialgia than surgical castration.

Please know that if I do go ahead with this, I'll be using fresh, brand-name drug and not homebrew, and under formal medical supervision, with the intent of writing up a case study to be published in whatever journal will have it. Unfortunately, since DonFL deleted his post, I can't try to learn from his mistakes. (After all, in science, even failures are illuminating!)

[ZeuterMe (imported)]

Is there any good way to attach files here that won't leak referrer data to the creator of the file, or be subject to link rot? I'd just as soon start dumping my reference material somewhere it'll do more good than my amusement.