Turkey in the Deep Dark Cellar ;-)

[moi621 (imported)]

Don't blame Moi,

I was told to put it here and not there.

I do appreciate our foreigners. I e-mail with a Canadian and a Turk.

Our Turk, Hakan, has wondered off to other interests and does not upload.

Similar to one of my other favorite members, Yoli who disappeared.

* Oh Yoli how could you *

Hakan evolved leaving us behind. Or devolved leaving Moi ahead ?

Turkey is a big, happening place. Most of us old farts don't remember much of Turkey

except for maybe some Cyprus conflict.

Turkey was a nice, big, area on the map that was not Communist.

Well I told Hakan who extolled the great evolution toward an internalized economy of Agriculture and Manufacturing and less foreign dependencies that:

Turkey cannot remain a big empty space on the map.

Hakan disagreed claiming the national aim is intranational, not international.

I have shared with him the Western perception of what was going on over "Peoples' Park", Istanbul and he has shared his Anglo-Turk links that are pretty "western" in sympathy.

Look up Peoples' Park. Lots of similarities.

The President (Head of State) has apologized for police brutality

The Deputy Prime Minister has done like wise

Prime Minister has said, "the park will be developed into a mall".

Hakan responded with this.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... s-rule-and

The new young Turks

Protests against Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and his ham-fisted response, have shaken his rule and his country

Jun 8th 2013 | ISTANBUL but it is still June 7 here

<edit>

In fact these protests are not just about trees. Nor is Turkey really on the brink of a revolution. The convulsions are rather an outpouring of the long-stifled resentment felt by those—nearly half of the electorate—who did not vote for the moderately Islamist Justice and Development (AK) party in the election of June 2011 that swept Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey’s combative prime minister, to a third term. The most popular slogan on the streets was “Tayyip Resign”. Millions of housewives joined in, clanging their pans in solidarity and belying government claims that the protests had been pre-planned rather than spontaneous.

<edit>

Who are the protesters who have created the biggest political crisis in a decade of Mr Erdogan’s rule? Many are critics of Turkey’s huge urban-development projects, favoured by a government that wants to pep up the slowing economy with infrastructure spending. The schemes include a third bridge over the Bosporus that will entail felling thousands of trees (and was to have been named after an Ottoman sultan who slaughtered thousands of Alevis); a huge new airport for Istanbul; and a canal joining the Black Sea to the Sea of Marmara. Environmentalists are appalled.

But, contrary to Mr Erdogan’s efforts to portray the protesters as thugs and extremists, they cut across ideological, religious and class lines. Many are strikingly young; but there are plenty of older Turks, many secular-minded, some overtly pious. There are gays, Armenians, anarchists and atheists. There are also members of Turkey’s long-ostracised Alevi minority, who practise a liberal form of Islam and complain of state discrimination in favour of the Sunni majority. Each group added its grievances to the litany of complaints.

What unites them is a belief that Mr Erdogan is increasingly autocratic, and blindly determined to impose his views and social conservatism on the country. The secularists point to a raft of restrictions on the sale of alcohol, liberals to the number of journalists in jail, more than in any other country. Thousands of activists of varying stripes (mainly Kurds), convicted under Turkey’s vaguely worded anti-terror laws, are also behind bars. “*This is not about secularists versus Islamists, it’s about pluralism versus authoritarianism*,” commented one foreign diplomat.

--------------------------------------------

It is a long, long article by a fav magazine of mine, The Economist.

And Hakan made it a reference.

So read up. Study up.

And consider regardless of who occupied Anatolia, the West disfavored them in history books.

Hittites over Egypt, etc.

Moi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM

[Riverwind (imported)]

From what I gather listening to the news its much more then just a protest to protect a park, Turkey is the melting pot of several religions and they don't want anybody interfering with their freedoms to live as they wish. In recent years the president has started to push his own religion on those of all his country, I believe this is much bigger then just a mall being built where the favorite park lives.

I would love to hear from our friend in Turkey so if your watching Hakan we would sure love your input.

River

[Losethem (imported)]

Moi, you're posting political threads in non-political forums again.

Are you trying to out-Bob, Bob?

--LT

[Riverwind (imported)]

LT, that was at my request, Moi tried to post this in the political section but sense its Turkey and we really know little of their political system I though it better to post it here.

Yes this was my decision.

River

[A-1 (imported)]

See?

Even River misses Bob/3.

I once had a broken clavicle and when it healed I missed it being broken.

Do YOU understand, now?

[Dave (imported)]

>>It seems that the taking heads on the 24 hour news channels suddenly discovered TURKEY is having some bad problems and they aren't stopping or going away.

>>They have established 24 hour presences and have had an interview with a newsman in a gas mask live on the air...

>>that's awful to listen too... Both because the protests are abad and the audio sounds ugly through a gas mask.

>>Erdogan having a shitfit is not the way to stop protests and the tensions have been building for a time.

>>

>>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22859959

Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned that he will not show "any more tolerance" for protests.

He vowed to end the demonstrations after police firing tear gas cleared Istanbul's Taksim Square, the focal point of unrest for nearly two weeks.

Protesters stayed in nearby Gezi Park, returning to Taksim Square, as police operations continued into the evening.

The unrest began after a crackdown on an environmental protest over Gezi Park's redevelopment.

The protests then widened, with demonstrators accusing Mr Erdogan's government of becoming increasingly authoritarian and trying to impose conservative Islamic values on a secular state.

There's more at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22859959

[moi621 (imported)]

I had e-mailed Hakan

This is about Turkey not the USA or Obama, that is for a different thread.

8 minutes later I get an e-mail to see CNN live.

Police in the Park with bad ass tactics the eve before the day

the Prime Minister was going to meet with "leaders"

before jailing them I suggested, Hakan resisted.

If you see this sooner rather then later, tune into CNN live

regular scheduled programming interrupted.

Moi

It Isn't That Big Empty Space on the Map No More

Link from Hakan

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/gezi-p ... sCatID=338

[moi621 (imported)]

Turkey yet smoulders. Will it erupt? There is a Union strike on Monday.

The protesters seem to be playing cat and mouse with police. The are chased out with water cannon and tear gas only to return.

The PM had a demonstration with ten K people in support according to CBS News.

Turkey may truly be split down the middle between secularist established by Ataturk

and those who wish a more Islamic nation.

Hakan does not play her no more but we e-mail often.

He believes it will be decided in the March election and everyone should go back to behaving like good Turkish citizens.

I say the PM should take a page from America and go to War in Syria to

unite the nation behind him Nothing like a "war" to unite a nation, unless the war drags on forever.

Moi

Anatolia Watcher

[Eunuchorn (imported)]

Turkey yet smoulders. Will it erupt? There is a Union strike on Monday.

The protesters seem to be playing cat and mouse with police. The are chased out with water cannon and tear gas only to return.

The PM had a demonstration with ten K people in support according to CBS News.

Turkey may truly be split down the middle between secularist established by Ataturk

and those who wish a more Islamic nation.

Hakan does not play her no more but we e-mail often.

He believes it will be decided in the March election and everyone should go back to behaving like good Turkish citizens.

I say the PM should take a page from America and go to War in Syria to

unite the nation behind him Nothing like a "war" to unite a nation, unless the war drags on forever.

Moi

Anatolia Watcher

we had a war on drugs, and ended up with more drugs. we had a war on poverty and got more poor people. can we have a war on jobs and education next?

[considering (imported)]

One dreary November day I'd decided to walk across the Galata Bridge from European Turkey to Asian Turkey. A block or so from the bridge there was a friendly looking man with a towel over his arm standing by a barber pole. He smiled revealing a set of teeth that glittered, even on this sunless day. Having nothing to do I wandered over and was escorted like an honoured guest into his shop that was almost as big as a walk in closet in one of my guest rooms. But the hospitality! His name was Saksub and he was descended from a line of barbers that had worked in this place by the bridge for....that long. The door was closed, a coal burning stove was lit-I felt in my honour-a small boy, probably his son and the person who would inherit this valuable space, stood by ready to run upstairs for a coffee or a tea or a hookah. Before I was allowed to sit, my several layers of clothing were removed, down to my undershirt, and hung meticulously on a Turkish version of a hall tree. Seated in the chair, I was first covered with a warm rug of some sort and, over that, a traditional barber's cloth. Being in a tourist spot he had some English-lucky as my Turkish was as fluent as my Urdu which is to say non-existent. He proposed that I might enjoy his specialty which included a shampoo, shave, hair cut, massage and, of course, fire removal of elusive hairs from my nose, ears and wherever they chose to hide from him. Why walk the cold, windy bridge when I could stay there, warm, attended to...and so we proceeded. There should be a Turkish barber for at least every thousand men. Cleaned, coiffed, massaged, coffee'd, and made so welcome some two hours past. At only one point was there a problem; I didn't have a moustache-as every man knows-in Turkey-a man is judged by his moustache and, sadly, I had none. Was there a solution? There was. I hadn't shaved since the previous day and so there was a smudge of vaguely dark hair on my upper lip. With just a hint of colouring from a stick, the semblance of a 'stache was made and all was well. Such a happy day...such a great hair cut. How guilty to have to return to that symbol of American Culture, the Hilton. Over ten years when I would be in Turkey I would manage to go back at least once if not oftener per visit. Once, knowing somewhat in advance that I would be there, I let my putative moustache grow and arranged to have a scarf cover my face until I was in the shop. Rapture was unconfined! I got all the other "usual' treatments but hair by hair, my moustache was loved, admired, snipped, razored into the perfection of what a moustache should be. Unfortunately I was then walking on crutches-I am amused by MS-and when he saw me come around the corner, even with my face covered he knew me-at 2 meters I'm hard to miss-and I could see the concern in his face. When I proudly left with my hair well pomaded, my face baby bottom smooth and, most importantly, my 'stache luxuriously gleaming I thought...this is what American/Turkish relations should be. Not once in that country have I ever been treated with anything but courtesy. I wish Saksub could have a word with the Prime Minister, perhaps while he was cutting his hair or making sure his moustache never looked better. I think they could work something out.