Digit ratio, something to do with our hormoe exposure?

[foxytaur (imported)]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio#section_4

I stumbled onto a crude phenomena that determines ratio of prenatal(before birth) androgen exposure.

Whts weird is my 2D finger is almost as long as my middle finger and 4D is super short.

Contrary to belief a bigger 4D to 2D finger means more androgen exposure during birth?!!!!!!

This all happening with my right hand.

My left hand is just weird. 2D=4D length wise.

I measured with calipers to. A % error of 0.074 margin.

both index and ring finger are identical in length with my left hand

[cheetaking243 (imported)]

Yup... that was one of the odd things that I myself stumbled upon in my earlier days of questioning whether I really was transsexual or not. And, big surprise, I also have an index finger and ring finger that are pretty much exactly the same length, with the index finger a little longer. Once I discovered this, I was naturally fascinated, and spent the next three days straight looking at the hands of every single guy at my poker tables to see which of their fingers was longer. And out of that entire group of 100 or more guys, only 3 or 4 them had index fingers that were either the same length or longer than their ring fingers. All of the rest had ring fingers that were longer. So it's like maybe 3-4% of the general population of men who have longer index fingers, at most. And yet, when this very topic showed up over on Susan's board, and everyone posted their ratios, twenty-two MtF transsexuals responded, and TEN of them had longer index fingers, for an rough estimation percentage of 45% of MtF transsexuals who have longer index fingers. So while it doesn't prove anything, as there were many transsexuals who had ratios squarely in the male average range, and likewise I had no reason to think that the guys at my poker tables with longer index fingers were any different than the others, it would indeed appear that the prevalence of this 2D:4D digit ratio anomaly among the transsexual community is quite high. It's somewhere along the lines of being at least 10X more prevalent among transsexuals than among the general population. So yeah. Quite fascinating. And yeah, it has indeed been linked to a lack of exposure to testosterone in the womb.

[foxytaur (imported)]

what I find odd though is if I was exposed to less T . It's just so weird. I'm the first child mother conceived. Perhaps the T imbalance had to do with the overpowering estrogen mom had in her womb.

It's no secret she suffers from allergies, anemia, and ZOMG hormonal issues such as wait....irregular periods triggured by autoimune problems.

To describe how bad these auto immune problems were I couldn't even drink her breast milk.

I responded with a huge allergic reaction.

Had to go on soy milk at the time and rely on artificial means to introduce a primary immune system in my body aka medications and injections.

Younger sis turned out fine except she's got tons of physical health issues, unlike me.

Peptic ulcer(surgery), apendix almost burst(cyst and 3 night stay at hospital due to infection),

both knee caps required replacement(surgery and prosthetics) and weak brittle bones to an extent.

Whatever it is I'm glad I'm healthy.

I wouldn't trade my body for my sisters beauty. She may be pretty but she's definetly unhealthier than me.

her heavy smoking habits, extreme dependecy on pot(wrinkles bc she doesnt use a vaporizer) and drinking obsession will get to her eventually, but that's a different story

[devi (imported)]

I'm not sure if puberty has something to do with it or not but that's about the time I started noticing how much smaller my hands seemed to be than anyone else. For awhile I wondered if it was from chewing my nails. Anyway mine are about 2d:50, 3d:55, 4d:45, 5d:30mm, so... 0.09?

[JesusA (imported)]

...

when this very topic showed up over on Susan's board, and everyone posted their ratios, twenty-two MtF transsexuals responded, and TEN of them had longer index fingers, for an rough estimation percentage of 45% of MtF transsexuals who have longer index fingers.

There is quite a large (and rapidly increasing) literature on 2D:4D finger ratios. Most studies use the right hand, though I suspect that the dominant hand would be a better measure. Anyway, to get your very own 2D:4D, first measure the length of your index finger from the web between it and your middle finger. Then measure your ring finger from the web between it and your index finger and the tip. Divide the index finger by the ring finger. This gives your 2D:4D.

The length of the ring finger is enhanced by more testosterone in the system during the middle trimester of pregnancy. This is also an important period for brain development, so 2D:4D is a proxy for testosterone impact on the fetal brain.

Some findings in the literature are that individuals with a 2D:4D of less than 1.00 are more likely to have increased verbal aggression, greater athletic ability, and to be more physically aggressive. Individuals with a 2D:4D of 1.00 or more have a much reduced risk of both oral and prostate cancers. There is also evidence for a reduced risk of osteoporosis for those with a 2D:4D of more than 1.00.

The literature contains a great many more speculations and hypotheses that are still being worked on.

The question about 2D:4D in Male-to-Female transsexuals is a good one, but needs to be modified. There is good evidence that the onset of MtF gender dysphoria fits a bi-modal curve. There are those who know they are in the wrong body essentially from the time that they know there’s a difference between boys and girls and those who first have strong feelings of dysphoria at about age 40 (plus or minus a few years). There is no question that the dysphoria is real in both cases, but there may be quite different causes. It would be interesting to know if it is reflected in 2D:4D.

[cheetaking243 (imported)]

^Well, I did notice that a majority of the late-transitioners on that site had more masculine digit ratios. I can think of three of them off the top of my head.

[foxytaur (imported)]

My hands are decently tiny and digits are thin too Devi. Like my grandma's or japanese folk.

But thankyou jesus. You forgot to mention that a higher index raises likelyhood of heart issues.

Especiallly cardiac arrest. And funny thing is all in my moms family suffer some degree of heart problems. (especially the females)

My grandma from time to time gets a minor stroke but I believe this varies with one's fitness, diet and heath. she's 77 with and all her life was relatively stressed,unfit and poor diet.(not fat bc I belive she takes potent laxatives so as to skip the digestion of High GI breads and foods cooked with lard(manteca) and margarine I detest with a passion)

I don't think she's got much left vitality nor life left in her.

Not like I really cared.She's the one responsible for turning my mom into the ogre she is today.

[devi (imported)]

I'm not sure if puberty has something to do with it or not but that's about the time I started noticing how much smaller my hands seemed to be than anyone else. For awhile I wondered if it was from chewing my nails. Anyway mine are about 2d:50, 3d:55, 4d:45, 5d:30mm, so... 0.09?

Ok. I measured mine from crease to tip instead of to the finger print as before and used a small clear plastic ruler and came up with 2d:54, 3d:57, 4d:51, 5d:35 mm. 54/51=01.08. Which is probably pretty normal, I think. I've run across this before and never quite knew what they were doing or even if this were valid in the first case and I'm still not so sure.

[~Tiamat~ (imported)]

I'm not sure if puberty has something to do with it or not but that's about the time I started noticing how much smaller my hands seemed to be than anyone else. For awhile I wondered if it was from chewing my nails. Anyway mine are about 2d:50, 3d:55, 4d:45, 5d:30mm, so... 0.09?

I had large hands at birth and smaller hands after puberty, even shaking hands of women. Long with long fingers, though.

I can't remember my digit ratio offhand but it's >1 on both hands. I also had other ratios measured at some point but I've not known the significance of that.

Obviously I feel this is all pretty crude and a way of rationalising things after the fact, what with all the variance!

Does anyone know anything about dermatoglyphics? I was interested to find it was a "real thing", I thought I was just being humoured. I have seven arches (a couple look like loops but with no ridge count) and a significantly low total ridge count. No whorls although my dad has a lot.

[plix (imported)]

My index and ring fingers are the same length