Is it nature or nurture?

[kristoff]

Thanks for the comments guys. No actual shift as a total turnaround regards sexual orientation possibility seems to be the consensus.

This whole 80 or 65 % straight, or 20 or 35 % gay thingy is interesting discussion though. Like, we all know men who are more/less femenine than others, but it doesn't really matter if you are 1% gay or 35%, in the sense that both men still do not desire to sleep with other men.

But what these percentages possibly mean, is that if there were chemicals to push us towards homosexuality, then the already more feminine man would need less 'push' to turn, so to speak.

Then the body builder, ultra masculine types could not be pushed over that edge. What about the muscle boy who, when he opens his mouth his purse falls out, and his legs float up?

Because there has to be a dividing line here. We could say hypothetically that it's 40% that would push a guy into being bi. If medication is able to push us to being more gay then why could it not be possible to cross that dividing line? Or can such medication only make us more feminine in our way of thinking, our calmness, our interests, but not change who we view as attractive? It's been mentioned that by becoming more feminine we can now see what makes a man attractive, but this is a lot different to looking at an attractive guy and viewing him with the desire of approaching him and kissing him. Well at least I think so. Anyhoo, if it's a simply chemical balance (or inbalance, whatever you want to call it) that makes us straight/gay, isn't it feasible that at some time in the not too distant future one would be able to take medication that directly changes this balance and therefore their sexuality?

It's a kinda funny thought that one month I could be straight and chasing the ladies, but then that doesn't work so I take a pill and hit the gay bars for a month! And in which case you could also switch back too.

I have taken anti-depressants, plus spirolactone, androcur and tamoxifen: none of which have led to more viewing women as less attractive, or men as more so.

I would think it extremely rare that a chemical imbalance were found to cause one's orientation to change. Some freak occurence in one's being might cause something. Sometimes transgender issues will cause changes as one progress through transition. But a chemical causation is one I've never seen evidence for.

There was a documentary I saw once which spoke of some guys who had had a stroke or hit their head badly or something and something had happened to switch their sexual orientation. It went into detail of their change in personality too. One man suddenly developed a passion and talent for drawing which he'd never previously had.

System won't allow me to repost without 10 additional letters. Here are a few.

[gareth19 (imported)]

Of course it's obviously entirely nurture. Without his ever present hyper-masculine father image in the picture, we can all see how easily Dubya might have turned into a pansy. Without Dick Chaney's virile duck-hunting presence or Brian Burke's butch hockey coaching, one of their kids could easily have become gay.

[kristoff]

Of course it's obviously entirely nurture. Without his ever present hyper-masculine father image in the picture, we can all see how easily Dubya might have turned into a pansy. Without Dick Chaney's virile duck-hunting presence or Brian Burke's butch hockey coaching, one of their kids could easily have become gay.

But is Dick Cheney's daughter butch?

[foxytaur (imported)]

Of course it's obviously entirely nurture. Without his ever present hyper-masculine father image in the picture, we can all see how easily Dubya might have turned into a pansy. Without Dick Chaney's virile duck-hunting presence or Brian Burke's butch hockey coaching, one of their kids could easily have become gay.

Not sure whether sarcasm or fact based response?

(im serious btw I can't detect jokes well, being honest)

[Cainanite (imported)]

I'm going to try and formulate a response to this thread. As is well known, I am what I like to call an asexual-bisexual. By that, I mean that I can enjoy the thought of myself being romantically involved with either males or females, but that when it comes to the actual act of sex, I find the thought a bit too daunting to consider, no matter the gender of my partner.

Have I always been this way, or did something happen to me to make me the way that I am? I really don't know. Long before I entered puberty, I entertained the fantasy of being with both males and females. I remember being told that all kids experiment with their fantasies. Boys, girls, supposedly it is perfectly natural for a heterosexual boy to have romantic or even sexual thoughts about another boy while growing up. I certainly did. But, I also had those thoughts and feelings about girls. As far as I can tell, nothing about that has changed for me. I am still who I was when I was a child, at least as far as my romantic thoughts go.

As a child I thought there would come a time when I would naturally start to think about girls more. It never happened. Nor did I start to think about boys more. It pretty much stayed in the balance/ratio it always was for me. Of course, if I had grown up with more testosterone in my system than I did, maybe I would have turned out different. I just don't know.

As far as to how I was nurtured, I think it was always expected of me that I would turn out traditionally heterosexual. My home life was certainly geared in a very traditional way. I also grew up in a place where homosexuals were a bit like tales of leprechauns, or unicorns. Whatever they were, they certainly didn't exist where I lived. At least no one ever dared admit they were one. If nurture were the only factor, then I should have been heterosexual.

A few people outside this community that I have tried to explain this to, seem to think I could just make a choice, and magically become 100% homosexual, or 100% heterosexual. As if I had a choice. It would certainly be easier if I could just turn off one side of myself or another. But it just does not work that way.

As far as my romantic thoughts go, I am truly bi-sexual. I know I was born that way.

As far as my sexual thoughts go, I simply have not developed the mature biology to find it enjoyable. Try as I might, it just doesn't work for me. This too, seems to be just the way I was made.

It is nature, at least for me.

I worry that if people ever find the "cause" of homosexuality, bisexuality, or asexuality, that they will then try and "cure" it or prevent it medically. If you think we have it bad now, just wait until science perfects the "Gay-B-Gone" pill. Yikes!

Just my two cents... for all that's worth.

[foxytaur (imported)]

the exploit of promise

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oneYI0fhGa0& ... neYI0fhGa0

hiv replication process

http://youtube.com/watch?v=olD8A_zM574& ... lD8A_zM574

theyd have to unravel the entire genome sequence........check but 85% of strands they have no idea what they do LOL

take into account the various mechanisms that switch reccesive and dominant alleles, cut and paste(ala MS paint) adenine, gaunine, thiamine across various 3D binding sites on the double helix, chromatid crosslinking, random mutations.

I'd say no, there is a high probability (very high) that they will never find what cause people to be gay, straight, trans, other etc....

There a better chance at finding a cure for HIV than unraveling the mysteries of gender and sexual variation.

Were close btw. Read up on the berlin patient and the girl whos leukemia was cured via reverse engineering of a hiv gluco protein outer shell

Apparently HIV has an achilles heel. sugar protein gp132 sites on its outer layer membrane always bind to T cells CCRX5 and CXR4 co-receptors and this never changes never!!!!

So why not genetically alter T white blood cells through gene therapy to not carry the lock that fits the key to these sugar binding sites

There exists a very very small % of people that are immune to HIV and they do it bc theyre immune system mutated to not include the binding sites for the CCRX5 and CXR4 on their T cells

If they got on the ball theyd have a functional cure but knowing the pharmaceutical industry they'd never allow for a functional cure to be developed just yet when theyre raking in money on the cocktail drugs that contain the hiv virus at bay.

Its disgraceful but what can you do?!!!!

Im meantime wear protection, ain't no shame in using a condom boys.

[cheetaking243 (imported)]

^Which is one of the things that makes me wary of the entire for-profit health industry... they don't make money when everyone is healthy, they make the most money when everyone is always sick and needs a constant supply of pills which never actually cure them, only make them temporarily feel better.

[Paolo]

Not sure whether sarcasm or fact based response?

(im serious btw I can't detect jokes well, being honest)

I'm thinking sarcasm, yes.

[A-1 (imported)]

But is Dick Cheney's daughter butch?

I know genetics. However, my GUT instincts tell me that if she had inherited ANYTHING from him, she'd be NOT butch but instead she'd be BITCH!



...and probably SICK to boot!

[foxytaur (imported)]

Well there are places around the world still where people think its nuture that causes gayness, which is really sad, just move into third world countries and Africa. Oh boy!!!!.....where to start with Africa.

Im sorry A1 but majority of that continent (central Africa)is fucked beyond repair no matter how much stimulus is added to help the people. I hate saying this but me thinks its a lost cause.

Theres even people who line up to visit crazy witch doctors for a cure to get rid of the gay or hiv for that matter

NB = Didn't Uganda come close to pass into law kill all the gays recently?

One things for sure, what the heck are some crazy white radical evangelists doing in those nations?

there has to a hidden agenda much more than simply preaching to people for a hopeless cause.

Last yr I was watching that vid regard joseph kony and you know what it was full of baloney.

Im sure you know what im talking about A1, that silly propaganda that "invisible children" released not that long ago.