matthew 19:12

[knightbird111 (imported)]

For bible scholars, is matthew 19:12 allow testicle removal only? Is a man with a penectomy also considered a eunuch?

[Atreyu88 (imported)]

I always thought it was referring to any man or boy who was unable to have sexual intercourse.

For bible scholars, is matthew 19:12 allow testicle removal only? Is a man with a penectomy also considered a eunuch?

[Paolo]

Your guess is as good as anyone.

I don't think any of us here are really sure what the definition of "eunuch" was at the time that the book of Matthew was written.

Then again, Jesus can probably find out.

[cheetaking243 (imported)]

The official Greek Lexicon word that is being used for "eunuch" in this verse is "εὐνοῦχος" which in its original Greek is a combination of two words, "eune," meaning "bed," and "ἔχω," meaning "to have, to hold, to possess," or also can mean "to have possession of the mind (refers to alarm, agitating emotions, etc.)" "Holder of the bedchamber" when used in describing the occupation. As such, it is being used both literally and figuratively to refer to those who are the keepers of the bed chamber, the eunuch occupation which was indeed well-established in Roman culture at the time, as well as those who abstain from sex, figuratively making themselves eunuchs.

Also, look earlier in the verse. It comes in the context of Jesus speaking to his disciples about divorce. He says that whoever divorces and remarries is committing adultery, and his disciples reply "then it is better not to marry." And Jesus then replies that not everyone can receive this law, and then speaks of born eunuchs (those born unable to have sex,) those who were made eunuchs by men (official palace eunuchs,) and those who make themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of God. (probably referring to those who purposefully abstain from marriage for the sake of religious devotion.)

So in this verse, it is likely not talking about actual physical castration when it talks about people making themselves eunuchs, it is using "eunuch" as a metaphor to mean those who choose to hold back their desires for sex (to hold fast their desires for the bed, as it would be with the translation.)

But hey, nowhere in the New Testament does it say anything about making oneself a eunuch literally too being a bad thing, so why are you looking for confirmation on this? If it's what you want, go for it, Christianity certainly isn't stopping you. There is actually a very long and recorded history of early Christians castrating themselves. And although penectomy was not generally a part of this, who's to say that you couldn't if you really wanted to?

[transward (imported)]

If it's what you want, go for it, Christianity certainly isn't stopping you. There is actually a very long and recorded history of early Christians castrating themselves. And although penectomy was not generally a part of this, who's to say that you couldn't if you really wanted to?

Most famous is Origen, third century theologian and early church father. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

Eusebius reported that Origen, following Matthew 19:12 literally, castrated himself. This story was accepted during the Middle Ages and was cited by Peter Abelard in his letters to Heloise. Scholars within the past century have questioned this, surmising that this may have been a rumor circulated by his detractors. The 1903 Catholic Encyclopedia does not report this. However, renowned historian of late antiquity Peter Brown finds no reason to deny the truth of Eusebius' claims. They are also accepted by Edward Gibbon in his work The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Gibbon asserts that, at least initially, rather than generating censure, Origen's self-castration was the focus of admiration, and dryly observes that "As it was his general practice to allegorise scripture, it seems unfortunate that, in this instance only, he should have adopted the literal sense." William Placher, a historian of theology, also accepted the tale, and he added that if it is true, it may have followed an episode in which Origen received some raised eyebrows while privately tutoring a woman. However, Henry Chadwick disagrees. He allows that the story may be true, but if so, it would be odd, given that Origen's exposition of Matthew 19:12 "strongly deplored any literal interpretation of the words. Perhaps," Chadwick continues, "Eusebius was uncritically reporting malicious gossip retailed by Origen's enemies, of whom there were many."

This passage has been controversial since the earliest days of the church. Interpretation has been all over the place, from viewing it as allegorical to those like Origen who took it too literally.

Transward

[lust-ocd (imported)]

The Noah Webster 1828 dictionary confirms what a eunuch was, in Matthew 19:12 -

EU'NUCH, n. [Gr. a bed, and to keep.] A male of the human species castrated.

Matthew 19:12 (KJV)

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have mad

e themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of

heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it , let him receive it.

[knightbird111 (imported)]

is a person with a penectomy considered a eunuch as well ? I wondered to myself this.

Removal of testicles is a eunuch, removal of the penis ...a eunuch too?

what if the guy has balls but no penis, still a eunuch ?

[devi (imported)]

The Noah Webster 1828 dictionary confirms what a eunuch was, in Matthew 19:12 -

EU'NUCH, n. [Gr. a bed, and to keep.] A male of the human species castrated.

Matthew 19:12 (KJV)

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have mad

1354983840]
e themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of

[/quote]

heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it , let him receive it.

From what I had been explained as a kid was that those which are eunuchs "born from the mother's womb" are those that have been born without the ability to procreate or have any offspring. However everyone can have sex at some level. And those which are eunuchs "made of men" have undergone surgery however crude and rudimentary or else have suffered from an accident which then required having the wound to be closed "by men". Monasticism and hermitage is composed of voluntary eunuchs "for the kingdom of heaven's sake.

[knightbird111 (imported)]

got the elastrator, I seriously cant get 1 testicle into the rubber band, oh well 20 bucks down the drain

elastrator idea is out the window

[Paolo]

I think you must have gotten a small cheap one?