A Lil History

skifreak (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

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transward (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:03 pm I will point out that our diseases killed far more Native Americans than those killed by fighting. I am curious why our diseases were so much more devastating for Americans than vice versa.

Transward

Indians (native american to be more proper) had never been exposed to smallpox, measels and several other (I think) diseases that the europeans had. Just like today with the flu virus, new strains are a problem for everyone until the strain has been around for awhile. The europeans happily traded with the natives, passing out infected blankets to help diminish the tribes. As a total guess, since the native americans were not crammed together in open sewer running amok with rats european type towns they probably were a lot healthier in lack of illness.
moi621 (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

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One theory hold that disease carried by out of Africa people 100,000 years ago played a role in the extermination of archaic peoples in Europe and Asia.

You don't need a killer disease. Just everyone sick at once and no one to nurse, obtain food, etc.

Then a survivable disease becomes lethal on a collection of people.

Moi

Don't forget what those Africans did to us with their germs 📢
A-1 (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by A-1 (imported) »

moi621 (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:00 pm One theory hold that disease carried by out of Africa people 100,000 years ago played a role in the extermination of archaic peoples in Europe and Asia.

You don't need a killer disease. Just everyone sick at once and no one to nurse, obtain food, etc.

Then a survivable disease becomes lethal on a collection of people.

Moi

Don't forget what those Africans did to us with their germs 📢

What IS the year on the Jewish calendar? Account of the world is not 100k years old according to it...
transward (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

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skifreak (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:04 pm Indians (native american to be more proper) had never been exposed to smallpox, measels and several other (I think) diseases that the europeans had. Just like today with the flu virus, new strains are a problem for everyone until the strain has been around for awhile. The europeans happily traded with the natives, passing out infected blankets to help diminish the tribes. As a total guess, since the native americans were not crammed together in open sewer running amok with rats european type towns they probably were a lot healthier in lack of illness.

True but the Europeans had never been exposed to the diseases of the New World. Euro-Asia certainly had more large cities than the Americas, but the Aztec capitol was' around 1000, one of the largest cities in the world.

Transward
moi621 (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by moi621 (imported) »

My fav theory of Syphilis is it evolved from the exchange of

genetic material by two dermal spirochetes,

one found in the New World, one in the old.

Neither spirochete caused such a devastating disease as syphilis.

Yaws was one. The other is absent from my present consciousness.

And NEVER FORGET what those Africans did to the Euro-Asians

100,000 years ago. Benign replacement? Yup! 🙄

Never forget. It may have led to eons of "tribal memory". (ref.: Robert E. Howard)

Truly I like the germ theory for the event. Not the brutal conquest.

Spirochetes and other germs sure make history lil :)

Consider how since ancient times the wise avoided "armies" moving through their area.

Peoples new disease followed armies.

The Hittites suffered a terrible blow to empire by Egyptian germs.

Moi
devi (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by devi (imported) »

For seeing how most of the Indians had had "disappeared" especially in California there sure is an awful lot of people particularly of Hispanic descent in the southwest that belong to certain mitochondrial haplogroups which stem from the original Indian (mtdna A,B,C,D and some X). Some of these mito haplogroups which while belonging to the original Indians differ slightly than any that exist among the Indians themselves but nonetheless did pass through Beringia.
moi621 (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

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devi (imported) wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:58 pm For seeing how most of the Indians had had "disappeared" especially in California there sure is an awful lot of people particularly of Hispanic descent in the southwest that belong to certain mitochondrial haplogroups which stem from the original Indian (mtdna A,B,C,D and some X). Some of these mito haplogroups which while belonging to the original Indians differ slightly than any that exist among the Indians themselves but nonetheless did pass through Beringia.

Yup, my Mexican American friend had his genome done via 23andme

Maternal Haplogroup straight out of Northern Siberia into the Americas.

Paternal, Y Chromosome was far more interesting, right out of "Conquistador Land"

with no family lore to match. Similar to 60% of Afro Americans having a Euro Y chromosome haplogroup.

We both feel we have received our $299 worth of enjoyment from the experience.

BTW my Maternal Haplogroup is Ashkenazim and my Paternal is centered a little east following family suspicions

of Sephardim lineage.

Being part of an inbred group with lots of subscribers to the service, I have lots of 2nd, & 3rd cousins out there.

My Mexican American friend has hardly two 3rd to distant cousins in the system.

I would contribute to River's genome analysis if he shares. :)

Moi

Don't get me started 🙅
devi (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by devi (imported) »

There is also a very prevalent Pueblo Indian Sephardic lineage native to Colorado - New Mexico.
moi621 (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by moi621 (imported) »

devi (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:20 pm There is also a very prevalent Pueblo Indian Sephardic lineage native to Colorado - New Mexico.

None of those American Indian claims have stood the Genome Challenge

like those Black Africans way down south or the Ethiopian claims.

You gotta reference?

Moi
transward (imported)
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Re: A Lil History

Post by transward (imported) »

moi621 (imported) wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:44 pm None of those American Indian claims have stood the Genome Challenge

like those Black Africans way down south or the Ethiopian claims.

You gotta reference?

Moi

Actually the Jewish DNA link among the Spanish/Indians of the Pueblo area around the Four Corners area (Colo., New Mexico, AZ and Utah) is well known. Apparently many of the Spanish who conquered the area were Conversos, Jews who had converted to Catholicism under threat of torture or death during the Spanish Inquisition, but were still secretly practicing Judaism. See🌐//www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/s ... alley.html

The finding raised some awkward questions. What did the presence of the genetic mutation say about the Catholics who carried it? How did they happen to inherit it? Would they have to rethink who they were—their very identity—because of a tiny change in the three billion "letters" of their DNA? More important, how would it affect their health, and their children's health, in the future?

Some people in the valley were reluctant to confront such questions, at least initially, and a handful even rejected the overtures of physicians, scientists and historians who were suddenly interested in their family histories. But rumors of secret Spanish Jewry had floated around northern New Mexico and the San Luis Valley for years, and now the cold hard facts of DNA appeared to support them. As a result, families in this remote high-desert community have had to come to grips with a kind of knowledge that more and more of us are likely to face. For the story of this wayward gene is the story of modern genetics, a science that increasingly has the power both to predict the future and to illuminate the past in unsettling ways.

Expanding the DNA analysis, Sharon Graw, a University of Denver geneticist, confirmed that the mutation in the Hispanic patients from San Luis Valley exactly matched one previously found in Ashkenazi Jews from Central and Eastern Europe. http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-nonjews.html

Simon Romero. "Hispanics Uncovering Roots as Inquisition's 'Hidden' Jews." The New York Times (October 29, 2005). Excerpts:

"When she was growing up in a small town in southern Colorado, an area where her ancestors settled centuries ago when it was on the fringes of the northern frontier of New Spain, Bernadette Gonzalez always thought some of the stories about her family were unusual, if not bizarre. Her grandmother, for instance, refused to travel on Saturday and would use a specific porcelain basin to drain blood out of meat before she cooked it. In one tale that particularly puzzled Ms. Gonzalez, 52, her grandfather called for a Jewish doctor to circumcise him... Ms. Gonzalez started researching her family history and concluded that her ancestors were Marranos, or Sephardic Jews, who had fled the Inquisition in Spain and in Mexico more than four centuries ago. Though raised in the Roman Catholic faith, Ms. Gonzalez felt a need to reconnect to her Jewish roots, so she converted to Judaism three years ago. ... These conversions are the latest chapter in the story of the crypto-Jews, or hidden Jews, of the southwestern United States and northern Mexico, who are thought to be descended from the Sephardic Jews who began fleeing Spain more than 500 years ago. The story is being bolstered by recent historical research and advances in DNA testing that are said to reveal a prominent role played by crypto-Jews and their descendants in Spain's colonization of the Southwest. ... Family Tree DNA, a Houston company that offers a Cohanim test to its male clients, gets about one inquiry a day from Hispanics interested in exploring the possibility of Jewish ancestry, said Bennett Greenspan, its founder and chief executive. Mr. Greenspan said about one in 10 of the Hispanic men tested by his company showed Semitic ancestry strongly suggesting a Jewish background. (Another divergent possibility is that the test might suggest North African Muslim ancestry.)"

Transward
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