Julian Assange just made matters worse

BossTamsin (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by BossTamsin (imported) »

DavidB (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:44 am I have been living in London for the last 2 years, I dont know where you are getting your intel from, but nobody over here has ever actually suggested invading the embassy, that is just pure BS. And nobody over here believes he isnt guilty of the sex charges either.

Pardon... Britain threatened to revoke the embassy's legal status, and then send armed men in to physically take Assange. Same difference.

British Threaten To Invade Ecuador Embassy To Get Assange (http://www.ibtimes.com/british-threaten ... nge-748054)

Britain is threatening to enter the Ecuadorian Embassy in London to arrest Julian Assange, Ecuador's foreign minister said Wednesday.

Assange took refuge at the embassy in June to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he faces questioning over assault and rape claims, which he denies.

Ecuadorian Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino also said a decision on the Wikileaks founder's asylum request would be made public at 7 a.m. Thursday, the BBC reported.

At the same time, the British Foreign Office said it could revoke the embassy's diplomatic status, and the UK had a "legal obligation" to extradite Assange.

"Under British law we can give them a weeks' notice before entering the premises and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection," a Foreign Office spokesman said in a statement quoted by Reuters. "But that decision has not yet been taken. We are not going to do this overnight. We want to stress that we want a diplomatically agreeable solution."

Meanwhile, a number of police officers are outside the embassy, in Knightsbridge.

At a news conference in Quito Wednesday evening alongside Assange's mother, Patino said a letter was delivered to the Ecuadorian government through a British Embassy official there.

"Today we received from the United Kingdom an express threat, in writing, that they might storm our Embassy in London if we don't hand over Julian Assange," he said. "Ecuador rejects in the most emphatic terms the explicit threat of the British official communication."

Such a threat was "improper of a democratic, civilized and rule abiding country," Patino said.

"If the measure announced in the British official communication is enacted, it will be interpreted by Ecuador as an unacceptable, unfriendly and hostile act and as an attempt against our sovereignty. It would force us to respond," he said. "We are not a British colony."

The British said they have been trying to negotiate with Ecuador, but may invoke the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act of 1987, which allows the UK to revoke the diplomatic status of an embassy on its soil.

Or, if you prefer your news local:

Julian Assange asylum: Ecuador is right to stand up to the US (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... um-ecuador)

Ecuador has now made its decision: to grant political asylum to Julian Assange. This comes in the wake of an incident that should dispel remaining doubts about the motives behind the UK/Swedish attempts to extradite WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. On Wednesday, the UK government made an unprecedented threat to invade Ecuador's embassy if Assange is not handed over. Such an assault would be so extreme in violating international law and diplomatic conventions that it is difficult to even find an example of a democratic government even making such a threat, let alone carrying it out.

When Ecuadorian foreign minister Ricardo Patiño, in an angry and defiant response, released the written threats to the public, the UK government tried to backtrack and say it wasn't a threat to invade the embassy (which is another country's sovereign territory). But what else can we possibly make of this wording from a letter delivered by a British official?

"You need to be aware that there is a legal base in the UK, the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987, that would allow us to take actions in order to arrest Mr Assange in the current premises of the embassy. We sincerely hope that we do not reach that point, but if you are not capable of resolving this matter of Mr Assange's presence in your premises, this is an open option for us."

Is there anyone in their right mind who believes that the UK government would make such an unprecedented threat if this were just about an ordinary foreign citizen wanted for questioning – not criminal charges or a trial – by a foreign government?

So no.... nobody's threatened to invade the embassy to take a man who's facing no charges. Unless of course, you count the threat I've just linked to above.
Elizabeth (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Elizabeth (imported) »

No matter what happens now, he is never safe. The US Supreme Court ruled that the US can go anywhere in the world and disregard any countries laws in the apprehension of people who break US law, for the purpose of returning them to the US to stand trial. Or in Assange's case, head to Guantanamo. That is not to mention the pressure the US government can put on a country like Ecuador. He may evade for a while, but I promise you this man will end up in US custody. Ecuador might not turn him over directly, but you will hear about him being kidnapped and then showing up in Miami under arrest being escorted by US officials. Ecuador will not turn him over in a legal way, but they will give him up. Basically, he blew it. He is never going to live a free life. He will always be scared of getting caught.

Elizabeth
Peter47-NL (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Peter47-NL (imported) »

Elizabeth (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:34 pm The US Supreme Court ruled that the US can go anywhere in the world and disregard any countries laws in the apprehension of people who break US law, for the purpose of returning them to the US to stand trial.

Elizabeth

That is what we don't like about the USA
Riverwind (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Riverwind (imported) »

Peter for good or bad we are bully's at times, I must agree with you on that however we did not start this fight, Julian Assange did.

River
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Peter47-NL (imported) »

Elizabeth (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:34 pm The US Supreme Court ruled that the US can go anywhere in the world and disregard any countries laws in the apprehension of people who break US law, for the purpose of returning them to the US to stand trial.

Elizabeth

This is the arrogance of the power. This is also why we in Europe chuckle about the action of Assange. Assange irritates the arrogant power and we love it.
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Cainanite (imported) »

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:16 pm Peter for good or bad we are bully's at times, I must agree with you on that however we did not start this fight, Julian Assange did.

River

An argument could be made that The USA started the fight by invading a country that didn't attack it. The military was killing civilians, even though their intel showed they knew they were only civilians. And all the other ways the US was running its wars at the time. Assange merely reported it.

Wars are dirty things. I've always argued that if everything that was done in war was known to every person, a lot fewer wars would ever be fought. Nothing disinfects like sunlight.

I never liked Assange. He grates on my nerves. But I did like Wikileaks. It was a good idea, and was unfortunately under supported.

The USA is a bully. Now that bully is going after the kid who tattled on him.

No. Assange did not start the fight, but he did wander into a fight already in progress. He is certainly guilty of underestimating just how big of a bully he was really up against.
Riverwind (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Riverwind (imported) »

You will get no argument from me about starting a war in Iraq, I was against that from the start. However Assange did grossly underestimate how vindictive America can be. As I stated above, we are at our best when were arguing with ourselves, but were at our very worst when were all on the same page. Assange pissed us all off, no tiers will be shed over this piece of dung.

Only a 98lb weakling fool walks into the playground to fight a 600lb gorilla.

I guess the question is, did he really think he would get away with this? If he did he badly miss judged us.

River
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by DeaconBlues (imported) »

You will...
Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:14 pm Only a 98lb weakling fool walks into the playground to fight a 600lb gorilla.

I guess the question is, did he really think he would get away with this? If he did he badly miss judged us.

River

Maybe he is a fool, but I think he was RIGHT. And I do believe he did horribly misjudge the U.S. He foolishly believed some of the lies we proclaim to be our truths, lies about the American love of "freedom of speech." He was a fool to believe that the U.S. would not use every underhanded trick to get him. Honestly, sincerely, I am ashamed of the U.S. government's reaction to the whole "wikileaks" thing, I wish they would release Bradley Manning and if anything, thank Julian Assange.

I know, my opinion will probably be very unpopular here, most of you will think I am a traitor, but Julian Assange and Bradley Manning did the U.S. a favor, bringing to light some things that should never have ever been concealed... IF our government officials were not so easily able to hide their criminal activity behind unjustified classification, then they would quit being criminals.

Consider what OTHERS must think of the pompous, arrogant American Bully, by observing what I think when I contemplate similar activities conducted by Israel. In my lifetime, I have loved and at the same time hated some of the things Israel has done - crossing borders and completely disregarding other nation's sovereignty to get someone or something. For example, when the Israelis rescued their citizens from the insane dictator Idi Amin Dada (Kampala, Uganda, Entebee Airport -1978), I had the greatest respect for a government that really did serve and protect it's citizens. Yet, the same Israeli government pushed the boundries well past the limit when they kidnapped Adolph Eichmann, and brought him to trial and ultimately executed him - in that particular case I still sided with Israel because they could not reasonably expect any cooperation if they had persued a legal and ethical pathway for extradition of the war criminal Eichmann. Yet when they kidnapped Mordecai Vanunu, I was bitterly against them, there, they broke the law, showed contemptable disrepect for the sovereignty of Italy, and all because Vanunu tattled on them and their "secret" nuclear weapons program. I never forget that Israel has always put everyone else and any international laws far below their own desires when they look at the world, I never forget that Israel knowingly attacked an UNARMED U.S. ship, killed U.S. Navy sailors, even shooting at men who were in the water from their patrol boats (U.S.S. Liberty -1968), all in useless hopes that they could keep quiet their preparations for their upcomming offensive against Egypt. I respected Israel when it showed restraint and control, and even when they show audacious bravery in rescuing their citizens from far away places like Uganda, but when they act like a bully, I cannot help but hate everything about them.

Here we are, the mighty U.S. of A., and we are truly playing the part of a power-mad and insecure bully, using obviously underhanded tactics to go after Julian Assange. Others look at us and I am sure, they feel about us the same way I felt toward Israel when they murdered U.S. Navy sailors, or when the kidnapped Mordecai Vanunu. It is little wonder that our enemies are gaining ground against us when we play the part of the bully.
A-1 (imported)
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by A-1 (imported) »

Yes, I suppose that is one way of looking at it.

But it is damned if you do and damned if you don't...

If nothing is done it will be seen by some (especially in the Middle East) as weakness or cowardice...

Damned if you do and damned if you don't...
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Re: Julian Assange just made matters worse

Post by Peter47-NL (imported) »

Here in the Netherlands were years ago rumors that the participation of Dutch troops in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan had to do with gaining more international influence by the Dutch government, for example by getting a Dutchman as the chairman of NATO. These rumors were strongly denied. Wikileaks proved these rumors were true. In the mean time the Netherlands have withdrawn their troops in Iraq strongly reduced their troops in Afghanistan and is also reducing their whole army. Now we have the ridiculous situation that the Dutch former chairman of NATO postulate that by reducing our troops in Afghanistan and reducing the army we'll lose international influence and will not have Dutch people on important international positions. He now may speak the truth, but asserts the contrary of what he said years ago. Because of such a manipulation of the public opinion, for such a liars I'm very glad that there is such thing as wikileaks.
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